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The thing there tho is your last paragraph, different time, so its not relevant in the slightest to today
People eons ago lived in caves and were happy, should we still do that? Houses were rarely if ever burgled just a few decades ago, should we stop having locks on our doors then?
Infact many kids actually survived the pits, chimney sweeping and hard labour and grew up to be worthwhile adults should we start that again too then purely on that basis?
How about child prostitution? I know a very sensible balanced woman who was on the game and supporting herself from the age of 11, so by your “logic” perhaps we should make ALL girls do that as it obviously “proves” that it isnt risky, does no harm and turns out well balanced adults then eh?
As for letting kids experience life, it depends on the age surely? Or do you think keeping two year old toddlers indoors or supervised adversely affects their life experience then?
It would certainly be interesting to see how well they cope with crossing busy dual carraigeways and how safe they would be near canals and ponds without supervision and I’m sure the ONLY reason that most kids DONT change their own nappies is as you say because they are “wrapped in cotton wool” at age two years, so perhaps if left feral to wander the streets they would learn how to change their own nappies and stuffs, dya reckon?
As has been stated many times, these kids were under 4, nobody who deserves to be allowed to raise kids should ever under any circumstances let 4 year olds out of their sight, anyone who does should be steralised IMO as they dont exhibit the responsibility that comes with having kids and therefore dont deserve the right to procreate further
Infact other things that really ought to be considered are that even when I was a child some 3 decades ago we had noticeably fewer cars on the roads both parked and moving, more areas to play that wasnt anywhere near roads, less knife and gun weilding kids walking the street, far fewer totally sadistic people walking about (the nine year old who poured lighter fuel on another 9 year olds face and lit if “for a laugh” recently springs to mind) and as you also pointed out, paedophilia was a mostly family occurence (only compulsory in cornwall haha) and wasnt (seemingly) anywhere near as prominent and definitely wasnt as organised
So what “might” have been LESS RISKY (as its never been “safe”) in bygone times isnt relevant in the slightest to what is and isnt wise nowadays and therefore bears an equal lack of relevance to what should be acceptable now as NOW is when this woman and droves of equally lapsidaisical parents have their kids, not 30 years ago, but now, today!!!
The ironic thing is tho that parenting on average was actually (IMO) also far better, more involved, more conscientious and had far far more effort put into it in times when that wasnt as sorely needed, yet today when its desperately needed people in a vast amount of society niether have the time, energy nor inclination to apply any of those things or in just as many cases dont have the faintest idea of how to be a decent parent because their only experience of parenting was from their own equally useless parents during their childhood so generation upon generation the average quality of parenting decreases whilst the need for better than ever parenting INcreases
Sort of whimsically ironic I reckon lol
Johnny, suppose this little girl HADNT been abducted, suppose she was then left time and time again and was lucky to never ever be abducted, chances are she would be just as idiotic when she started to spawn her own pack of feral vermin then when one of those went missing and was killed would probably be saying the exact same things you are
“well I was left and it nothing happened etc etc blah blah”
You could even run across a busy road wearing a blindfold and not get run over, would you then claim that theres no harm in that too just because YOU were lucky?
Theres a real and present danger, one that although it shouldnt cause total paranoia SHOULD cause common sense and a reasonable degree of care and forethought to prevail, none of those things were present in this instance
If people want to play russian roulette with their own lives I have no problem with that, if nothing else it cuts down idiotic people continuing to further pollute an already cess pit resembling gene pool, but thats THEIR life and they can do whatever the hell they want with it as far as I’m concerned. They dont however own their children or have the right to play or take chances with their lives EVER
Then the celts rose up, the romans left and it all went downhill from there on in lol
Most 4 year olds, infact most teenagers have as much roadsense as a blind retarded lemming, so letting a child of that age wander is idiocy
As you seem to like “examples” a 6 year old was killed not long ago because she wandered out infront of a lorry the driver of which couldnt see her because of how high off the ground the cab was and she died even tho he was doing less than 15 MPH in a 30 zone
So who’s to blame there then?
The child?
The lorry driver……
OR
The parents?
Leaving a child of that age alone in a bath is not much better than this really from a safety point of view
As for the telly, bit retarded if it could topple, and a 4 year old shouldnt be toddling about unsupervised anyway so the lie in IS still totally irresponsible
So rather than stating a counter you’ve just listed more equally bad examples of parenting, more similar examples of where a parent IS to blame for being lapse
Even where its a momentary lapse or an oversight it DOESNT mean the parent isnt at fault, they are and that should be expressed rather than pussy footing around their misery as tho they couldnt have avoided it when they quite clearly could have
Give an example where the cabinet the TV was on collapsed unexpectedly or where the parent was with the child and was beaten unconcious by the anductor and you have examples where avoidance was hard and they were being responsible
Infact as with the bath instance, a occurence thats pretty much unheard of before is getting a bit closer, but leaving children alone at home or in a hotel room away from home is NEVER acceptable and no amount of misery already felt by the slack parent should absolve them from it being called exactly what it is
Piss poor parenting
What “they” are already going through pales into insignificance compared to what the child has gone through as a result of their actions and pussyfooting around the facilitators feelings to me seems no better than pandering to a rapist because they are in jail and absolving them of their crime because of their suffering
Each person has to live with the ramifications of their actions, thats personal responsibility
Some things can to an extent be classed as hard to predict, but things like this are abhorrent selfish actions and piss poor parenting even if nothing happens to the child as a result but when they do a lifetime of unhappiness and chastisement of the parent for what they did still wouldnt come close to what the child had to go through because of their half assed approach to raising their offspring
Even one screw up of this type cant be ignored as it only takes one of them to be fatal anyway, if having romantic meals alone mean that much to someone then just dont bother having kids or make sure they are suitably supervised
Its hardly rocket science is it?
Leaving a child of that age alone in a bath is not much better than this really from a safety point of view
As for the telly, bit retarded if it could topple, and a 4 year old shouldnt be toddling about unsupervised anyway so the lie in IS still totally irresponsible
So rather than stating a counter you’ve just listed more equally bad examples of parenting, more similar examples of where a parent IS to blame for being lapse
Even where its a momentary lapse or an oversight it DOESNT mean the parent isnt at fault, they are and that should be expressed rather than pussy footing around their misery as tho they couldnt have avoided it when they quite clearly could have
Give an example where the cabinet the TV was on collapsed unexpectedly or where the parent was with the child and was beaten unconcious by the anductor and you have examples where avoidance was hard and they were being responsible
Infact as with the bath instance, a occurence thats pretty much unheard of before is getting a bit closer, but leaving children alone at home or in a hotel room away from home is NEVER acceptable and no amount of misery already felt by the slack parent should absolve them from it being called exactly what it is
Piss poor parenting
What “they” are already going through pales into insignificance compared to what the child has gone through as a result of their actions and pussyfooting around the facilitators feelings to me seems no better than pandering to a rapist because they are in jail and absolving them of their crime because of their suffering
Each person has to live with the ramifications of their actions, thats personal responsibility
Some things can to an extent be classed as hard to predict, but things like this are abhorrent selfish actions and piss poor parenting even if nothing happens to the child as a result but when they do a lifetime of unhappiness and chastisement of the parent for what they did still wouldnt come close to what the child had to go through because of their half assed approach to raising their offspring
Even one screw up of this type cant be ignored as it only takes one of them to be fatal anyway, if having romantic meals alone mean that much to someone then just dont bother having kids or make sure they are suitably supervised
Its hardly rocket science is it?
Rott. when they were THAT age YES, they WERE watched every second of everyday bar when they were in bed in an OCCUPIED home asleep, thats not being a sad tosser, its called being a parent you hood cheese eater
If these folks had actually been being parents their daughter would still be safely with them, you dont IMO ever have cause however safe you “think” an enviroment might be to leave kids of that age unsupervised, because if someone else doesnt harm them they are quite capable of doing that themselves anyway, a 14 year old daughter fairy snuff. you’d ruin their life being overly watchful at that age, but were talking about 4 year olds here NOT teenagers and ones who werent even at home either but who were in a foriegn country so no safety could be assumed as it cant even be assumed here nowadays either when you ARE at home
So, if you think actually parenting a 0-4 year old child constantly is “sad” then what about this girl if she has been abducted and killed? Is that “just one of those things that cant be avoided” to the likes of you then eh?
And if they hadnt left their kids then none of them would have been abducted WOULD THEY?
If NOBODY did it then it would be quite hard for ANY kids to be abducted WOULDNT IT??
I think the only “tard” here right now is the person who thinks pointing out that these parents WERE completely and totally irresponsible with regards their child care in some way is the same thing in some weed smoking universe to being indifferent to paedos, care to elaborate on the actual connection delusionally tarded person????
Whether a child is abducted, just plain old killed or run over has nothing to do with whether the parent was or wasnt irresponsible and careless, whether they WERE irresponsible and careless is the only thing that decides that and these parents most definitely WERE both of those things, what has actually happened to the child is a completely different matter entirely, but one facilitated BY their careless irresponsibility
The world would be a much sadder place if these people DIDNT have to think about this every day for the rest of their lives, perhaps if they had done that already then 1) we wouldnt need to even be discussing this and 2) their kids would be safer
Bad or apathetic parenting shouldnt IMO be ignored out of empathetic sympathetic and just plain old PAthetic touchy feely crap just because something bad happens to a child, it IS that parents fault the bad thing happened because of how unbothered they were about their kids in instances like this and theres nothing wothwhile to be gained from stating otherwise but if it makes them and others actually start to act like actual parents and start to shoulder some of the responsibility they should already have been shouldering because of it then thats a bloody good thing as far as I’m concerned
If you give people a get out of criticism free card just because their selfish laziness cost their child their life then youre as good as condoning munchausens by proxy which is actually one of the worst forms of child abuse and is carried out by the parents
Indirectly this kind of thing isnt that dissimilar from MBP
Of course its the parents fault, who elses?
I’m sick to the back teeth of this social ethos of a complete disregard for personal responsibility on every level except paying tax we seem to have
The less such things ARE vocalised the more they happen, which is pretty obvious to see nowadays, remove the blame for an action and more people will do it,,,, simple
Kids nowadays are getting more and more like fashion accessories, parents want to have kids but live as tho they dont have any. Its about time some pressure was bought to bear on parents to remind them that their children didnt CHOOSE to be born, and until they or the parents die parenting is their primary role in life and everything else should be a secondary consideration
If they arent happy with kids interfering with their social and work lives then just dont breed, equally simple
Anyway, what complete and utter crud anyhoo
If the buyer wants to buy a home without a pack and the seller is happy to sell it without one whats the harm? The bulk of it is covered by the existing practice anyway and unless its becime illegal for people to buy run down wrecked houses to develop and I havent heard about it then the concept of a house MOT is a bit ludicrous really
It should be a personal choice whether to have one and then buyers can decide if they want to buy a home that has one or not and let the market decide
But where is the extra revenue for the exchequer in that eh? Thats the REAL reason for this, not peoples benefit as its proported
Anyway, is the 6 month time limit on these still in place too? Which would mean a cost of several thousand pounds for people whos homes are on the market for a few years
Basically its bollocks, the entire thing is a stealth tax accrued via VAT and income tax, theres no reason it couldnt have merely been an embellishment of the existing process that someone buying a home already has to do
The fact a home can sit without needing an “mot” for decades but them magically needs one when the seller is about to make money off it makes the real reasoning behind this quite plain really, its just another little earner to give the lefties more money to give as charitable donations to african businessmen and dictators
