[ubermik]

@abitofmary_j wrote:

@ubermik wrote:

@lil fek wrote:

I’ve never heard of organised stalking. What is it?

“Well a hell of a lot of stalking is a figment of the “victims” imagination for a start”

I don’t think that is true at all, although, the word is used a lot on the net in a joking way pertaining to overzealous admirers.

The term isn’t being manipulated to “describe what men do” both men and women alike are referred to as stalkers. The term bunny boiler is not a whimsical term it is evil and quite frightening.

“stalking used to be commonly done and still is by women”

The most recent figures from the government’s Criminal Statistics for England and Wales show that in 2003, 5,640 prosecutions were dealt with in magistrates’ courts. Of those, 4,884 defendants were men, 756 women. Of the 2,810 convictions, 2,500 were men, 310 women.
United States National Center for Victims of Crime, one out of every 12 women and one out of every 45 men will be stalked during their lifetime.

I think the stalking laws have been in force for some years so how can it be a new thing?

Figures rarely if ever reflect anything even approaching the truth, even tho they are often delivered as tho they are incontrivertible Fekky

To really get behind any social occurence you also need to first be able to see and secondly be able to comprehend the significance of social pressures, constructs, stereotypes (both interpersonal and organised) and the way they all act on and pull the topic at hand both in social arenas, the media, law courts and peoples own minds which is often so indoctrinated and wide spread it becomes invisible due to being so much of the “norm” to many out looks

Take a similar hot potato such as sexual harassment at work, because of the social climate and the overtly negative view and stance taken with regards it there has for decades been a marked increase in the amount of women bringing and winning actions pertaining to that act. But that doesnt mean theres been an increase in it simply that its become more likely for women to report it as the chance of it being taken seriously and them winning have increased

Nor do those increases even mean the amount won are that severe as the main reason for many such cases being won is merely that the accused was expendable, the woman driven in her pursuit and the cost in man hours and potential legal fees outweighed the validity of looking further, as businesses operate to make money after all

But two points there, many men go through far worse sexual harassment than the women who take up and win such cases, yet many dont even report them and in many cases arent even bothered by them as they dont see it as a big deal, because they will in many work enviroments have to face criticism, jibes about their sexuality, will be seen as weak for “not just taking it like a “man”” and various other deeply ingrained aspects of social conditioning whereas women due to different social conditioning will be more likely to be met with sympathy and concern for the exact same occurences making it less discouraging to progress it

On the female side of the fence it clouds yet further, as the exact same actions (often simply jokes or comments) performed by someone they either like or fancy WONT be taken as “sexual harassment” but willl be responded to and encouraged, whereas someone they niether like nor fancy will be “harassing them” a point of fact many employers are fully aware of, but one they cant usually fully point out due to then being accused of being complicit to the “harassment” or institutionally sexist

And thats just skimming the surface on that topic as the social influencing aspects of the externally viewed and massively simplified occurence go far deeper and spread much wider than any £10 whores legs ever could lol :D

To understand the reasons why “figures” on gender related issues are all but meaningless you first have to factor in the inherrent differences between those genders as you would when comparing two totally different cultures, the driving forces, views, indoctrinated outlooks, peer pressures, social expectations and beliefs of those genders and how each will be viewed by many groups in the exact same situation where the shoe is flipped to the other foot

With stalking as with sexual harassment, violence and even more serious things like DV, and child abuse as a society we massive trivialise such things, divert them, struggle to accept them or medicalise them where women are concerned because they clash head on with a mass of social constructs of what “women” are percieved to be like

Whereas the social constructs for men tend to increase the vehemence in many of those arenas where a man is the perpetrator and lessen the seriousness or cause him ridicule when he is the one claiming to be the victim

As a stark example of how deep such things go without boring you with the whole story a man walks into a night club with a female companion, a few seconds after entry (the bar not the companion btw lol, it wasnt THAT kind of club) another woman jumped on his back scratching at his face fervently whilst several bouncers and the crowd already in the club (men and women) stood by watching, many seeing the hilarity in this extremely teeny woman attacking what was a quite large bloke even tho the blood from her scratching at his face was quite clear

After a short while he dislodged her and with one back handed slap sent her sprawling on her ass at which point the bouncers and some of the crowd pounced on him, whilst others went to see if the woman was ok comforting her near the bar whilst the man was to all intents and purposes beaten up under the guise of being “carried out of the club” randomly being bounced into walls and pillars on the way and spat at, kicked and punched by both men and women in the crowd on the way because he had “hit a woman”, what a rotter lol

As a result he was ejected from the club with his companion, and later lost an eye because of the attack as one of her nails had puncture his eyeball

Now I am sure many in the crowd MIGHT have reconsidered their initial indoctrinated stance if they had learnt that, some might not have even seen the hilarity in the initial unprovoked attack and might even have seen the reaction to it as justified

But the actual reaction to both parts of the exchange is a very clear indication of not only how actions by genders are ingendered into us to view them and react to them differently and en masse but they also arent limited to drunken revellers in clubs, solitary instances or occurences but permeate every level of society and every profession therein as a result

The genders arent equal and they arent the “same” which is mostly because they arent raised to be the same and society itself reinforces that constantly both through social norms and the law, and as a result they wont act the same way in many given situations so mere “figures” never show anything even approaching reality but often just show what the person compiling them wants to show which in itself is driven by the same social indoctrinations I mentioned in many cases

Coming back to this topic, men expect women to “stalk”, so its no big deal to them when it happens, as a result its often seen as comical and because of social constructs of men being a “man” rarely if ever insills fear into them enough to progress it towards legal action, and even when it does the semblance of that then showing “weakness” will often kick in either personally or through peer pressure

And even where actual and justified because its such a “normal” thing where women are concerned and because the social construct of what a woman is tends to be emotional but inneffectively aggressive its not so serious when the actual facts are conveniently overlooked in favour of stereotypes

From a female perspective were far more readily bombarded with how “violent” the man creature is built to be, how many of them are predisposed to be killers and rapists and whatever else is the current media focus, and women are allowed to be scared and weak when it suits them to be so theres no downside to reacting to unwarranted attention to whatever amount someone wants to. so even as a deterrant its not as effective

But socially when a man is genuinely doing the exact same things its nowadays at least seen with a far darker view, coz “men is SOOOO nasty innit”, so as such its quite a good deterrant even when nothing of any real consequence was going on

Again just skimming the surface there, if you want to really see how representative the figures are tho see if you can find any transcripts and compare similar levels of “stalking” with the punishments applied to each gender as only mentioning “prosecutions” often hides an imbalance in what is handed out as a punishment as was clearly the case with child violence as I discovered a few years ago whilst researching it, where judges would on the same day hand out quite severe punishments to men for things such has merely holding a misbehaving child whilst taking them to their parent to explain their misbehaviour, when within hours women who had actually lashed out at children and totally lost it were let off almost scot free by the same judge within hours of each other as ones action was seen as potentially violent whereas the other was dismissed as a momentary “emotional” occurence that should be strived to be controlled in future

I might still have some of the more obviously contradictory transcripts floating around somewhere I can post if you either cant quite see what I am getting at re the social constructs and perspectives of gender or if you just dont believe such things influence the legal system lol

But dont be so easily swayed by what its claimed “figures” show, because they rarely show anything more than the person presenting them wants to make them show

could u condense this into 1 paragraph for me to read Uber lol

THats easy mary lol, just copy it into notepad and delete all the carriage returns and voila!! One paragraph :lol: :lol:

[ubermik]

@~Pebbles~ wrote:

@ubermik wrote:

@lil fek wrote:

Why was you in prison Uber?

Because I’d been a very naughty little boy :lol:

care to elaborate? :lol:

Surely if I did then I would have already dont you think? lol :lol:

[ubermik]

@~Pebbles~ wrote:

@sharongooner wrote:

@Bad Manners wrote:

It isnt our trusted British Police either. It’s greasy haired Portugese Police, who are totally inefecient.

absolutely totally 100% agree.

Why did they announce a month ago they had made “significant findings”?

Its a farce this investigation.

I have to say, im with you two on this one. Seems to me the police are under pressure to nail someone for this. They’ve found nothing and now they’re pointing the finger at the mum and dad. Would’nt be surprised in the least if they are being framed.

I just had to chuckle at the Suns headline over this, they call the police offer for a confession a “sick” one, that sort of crap is what helps to cause this kind of occurence in the first place

Even foriegn police forces dont just randomly pick suspects, and if anything the portugese ones are being perhaps OVERLY cautious, add to that the fact the current state of play is based on actual dna evidence, and evidence presented by the BRITISH police and still the papers as with many individuals are so brainwashed into a way of thinking that even the hint of a suspicion or accusation is seen as “sick” :shock:

What friggin planet do these people live on FFS? Its like they are totally blind and oblivious to the workings of reality and the real world, no wonder we have a country heading for its social death throes

[ubermik]

@forumhostpb wrote:

The real tragedy arising from all this is that NOBODY has come forward to name the shooter.

His identity absolutely has to be known by a substantial number of people and yet they refuse to come forward and do their civic duty by seeing that he is brought to justice.

The community that is shielding him and indeed the people of Liverpool ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Attending a murdered little boy’s funeral and publicly weeping and wailing for his parent’s loss is the ultimate act of hypocrisy, when (as a community) they are prepared to shield his killer).

I dont think its as much a shameful thing as it is yet another sign of the much ignored erosion of british society

Its about gangs at the heart, we, people are pack animals instinctually, and that exhibits itself in things like societies, communities, various identities such as national and racial ones as well as with pride for the groupings we are part of

So years ago the biggest “gang” in the county was the righteous, so people supported by weight of numbers and a never ending stream of people to watch their back were more inclined to “do the right thing”

Since then society has crumbled, the groupings now are much smaller and without much interlinking and many, perhaps even most people now certainly in the white british community live pretty isolated secular lives meaning that when faced with adversity they are pretty much standing “alone” in the true sense of the word

This in turn increases the power and intimidation of what would have been smaller “groups” by them now proportionally being far bigger like gangs of thugs or yobs, cancerously expanding non indigenous communities and pretty much any group that has some form of strong common connection and unifed aim or direction which then stregnthens the isolationist trend of the majoritive community

There might be 100,000 people in that area who WOULD under other circumstances give the lads name over, but as that would in most cases mean possible reprisals, and as they would face those reprisals alone with it not being KNOWN anyone would support or help them, but would more likely hide away in their own homes so THEY didnt also face reprisals the drive to do anything at all is lessened to the point of non existance

Combine that with the very real fact that kids now are responsible for a ridiculously high amount of deliberate killings by beatings, knives and guns and the fact the police even if called could take days to arrive on the scene due to resource limitations and you dont have a very good climate for people to “do the right thing”

THats not shameful, its not in many cases something that could even be called cowardice, infact realistically when the current state of play in this country is fully taken into account rather than the governmental picture they would like us to believe its actually common sense to do nothing because as seen recently, even something as innocuous as telling kids to stop jumping on a car can cost you your life and only a complete fool would, without some form of backup take action when that action could have mortal repurcussions

Any shame isnt really for the people of that area to shoulder, its actually for the entire country to shoulder because by gradual and repeated support for the softening of the back bones of our society via legislation, the adoption and repeated application of the human rights act, the unrestricted left wing applications of the social services department, CPS (criminals protection services lol) and the courts themselves as well as the undermining of authority and discipline within the police force, schools and the home everyone who has allowed that to happen is responsible and should be ashamed, not simply the people now having to consider and act when that “utopia” is in effect

Because we are all guilty of creating it, even wanting it and encouraging it, its just a cop out to then turn round and blame or criticise people trying to live and remain alive within it

[ubermik]

@lil fek wrote:

Why was you in prison Uber?

Because I’d been a very naughty little boy :lol:

[ubermik]

@meljanon wrote:

Wanted to make a comment following statements concerning the grandmother and the dog – i understand it isnt really the topic on this page right now but was brought up during conversations about the mccanns and “blame”.

No, the grandmother did not train the dog to eat children or order it to attack however, she was fully aware of the dogs potential to harm as he had previously not only attacked the victims aunty but he had also savaged another dog. :? :!:

How then can you not say she is partly to blame for the attack on her granddaughter which culminated in said childs death :!: :!: :?: :twisted: :twisted: :?

Back to the subject in question, in my opinion, the McCanns should at least face charges of negligence – they left three children alone to eat with friends in a country that is totally family orientated – their financial situation was such that there was absolutely no reason to not take advantage of the childcare service available to them. I very much doubt they would have left their children alone in England to visit an eating establishment so why on earth would they do so in an alien country. :?: :? :?

I am a single parent – I would never dream of leaving my children alone to go out with friends – had that have been the case I would have now have had my remaining children taken into care and be facing a jail sentence for negligence :!: :!:

A last minute thought …… I am sweetass’ mate :!: :P :P

If that was directed at me would you care to show where I said she WASNT to blame? My point in reference to that analogous comparison being used to show “difference” was the same one you just made, that in each case the people WERE directly responsible for at least contributing to the death even if they didnt actively take part in the killing, each facilitated the action taking place by their negligence and stupidity

@abitofmary_j wrote:

@Bad Manners wrote:

This was too be expected Mary Doll, after Kate was declared a well whatever it’s called.

oi drop the Doll lol

yeah it prob was expected…. I was hearing on the news Kate mother sayin if there was blood in the car it was planted….. i honestly don’t know what to think… but ill stand my ground on the fact they were both neglectful in the first place….

Planted? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Are you sure she was talking about the blood and not her granddaughter? lol

And I wonder if the two of them have started to try and implicate the other one yet? lol

I have to admit tho, 1-2 years? :o :o :o :o :o , thats fekkin abysmal even for accidentally causing their daughters death, what a totally pathetic sentence THAT is

[ubermik]

@sharongooner wrote:

The investigation in my opinion is a bit of a farce. The Portugese police are under the worlds media pressure to “do something”.

Had it happened in this country they would have been suspects from the word go as they were the last to see little Maddie alive.

Im damn sure that if it were me, a working class mum and not a Doctor I would have been hung out to dry by now, by the media, public and police, purely for the fact I had left my children alone, let alone been involved in her demise.

Being a Doctor(s) has done little to help speed up the investigation.

I actually disagree with that Goony, theres been several times I’ve thought a child going missing was suspicious but the media here has rolled out the “poor ickle parents” carpet as has the majority of the country till the truth later came out

Socially we are flea trained to feel pavlovian sympathy for “grieving parents” which for many and quite possibly the majority overrides common sense, suspicions and an objective impartial open mind on a topic

Our whole brainwashed social gender constructs make it almost impossible to see mothers, or women in general as capable of such things irrespective of how many times we DO see it whereas the same gender constructs make suspecting any men around the incident almost second nature as it makes us far too easy to assume that possibility

[ubermik]

@forumhostpb wrote:

After all, what would she then say to her new best friend, the Pope?????

(Forgive me father for I have got caught lol, hes a flipping catholic FFS, the whole cult is based on doing what you want, when you want and screw the consequences coz you can confess and get let off so he is hardly in any position to criticise considering he heads the largest organised paedo ring in the world really lol)

I wonder what will happen to the millions of pounds that has been donated to the McCanns by the public etc over the months???? If she is actually charged and convicted …. I wonder how stupid the celebs that supported her will feel.

(Tough time to be a has been celeb trying to rekindle yer fame by associating yourself with dishonest causes really, I wonder how many will get the grandslam of supporting campaigns for manmade global warming, Aids/HIV and the Maddy quest only to find out all three are totally bogus lol)

And now for a final ”killer” bit of cynicism >>>>>>>

Thank goodness that Princess Diana is dead because if she was still alive I’ll bet she couldn’t have resisted being involved with the McCanns and sharing the glare of the Media spotlight.

(And imagine her furore if the unsupervised maddy had actually been blown up by a landmine lol, you’d have had to have had her killed just to shut the bitch up lol)

[ubermik]

Oh youre right, theres oodles of negatives to the concept which is usually enough of a deterrant when theres whats mostly percieved as a working judicial system as an alternative

I cant think of a single extreme thats workable to any acceptable degree in the real world off hand, and as we have a judicial and social system that it a gnats whisker away from being on the side of the criminals a vigilante outbreak would be near enough the opposite extreme to the one we are rapidly approaching

Its just that theres a sense of buckaroo syndrome in the air at the moment, usually timid people are starting to reach the end of their tolerance and more and more people I interact with have stopped defending the flaws in society and the judiciary and are now mostly inclined to complain about it

So as I cant really see this government changing it back into any real form of deterant and are as likely to make it worse along the way anyhoo, and with the alternative being led by the hoody hugging joke of a party leader whos grasp on the reality of everyday life seems even looser than Baloney Bliars was I do wonder how long we have before a switch is flicked and one more plastic item makes the mules kick out around the country amidst cries of “buckaroo toerag”

How long before a justice system that would rather a hundred innocent men walked free than one was jailed starts to be replaced by one that would rather see 100 innocents get kneecapped rather than risking one scrote didnt get their just deserts?

[ubermik]

@Bad Manners wrote:

The last part of your post seems a bit far fetched and unlikely.

I agree though that were still no further to finding the truth. Gonna have to wait, and see what forensic “evidence” there is.

I still cant see it. These are people who have been in the Media Spotlight since the day their Daughter vanished. This is a body were talking about. It’s not an easy thing to dispose of especially with a Media Circus camped around you.
This would have only left a few hours for them to bury a Body, concoct a story, and then to face the World , and tell the world that their Daughter had been taken, whilst holding it together knowing that they’d accidentely killed their Daughter.
No I still dont believe it.

But we dont know that they arent both sociopathic for a start, in which case they would see their daughters death as an inconvenience, one that could affect their careers and just needs to be taken care of so there wouldnt be any need for them to “hold it together” in that instance as to them it would just seem as serious as tho they had broken an ornament

The fact they havent exactly seemed distraught alone could signify some form of sociopathy or a general dissassociative personality dissorder of another kind, and people like that do tend to be drawn to others with a similar psychology as other people would be freaked out by their stark coldness and lack of emotion

So as with every other aspect of this, no conclusions can be drawn from them “holding it together” as they might not even need to in the first place

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