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@emmalush wrote:
Im sure your looking for an argument of blame here, but where and to whom did he say this?
It was part of the secret recording. It sounded to me like he was saying that the locals there should kill muslims before the muslims kill them.
So you’d like to have a system like Israel where you can be rounded up by the military and held for years and years without ever being charged or convicted of any offence? The bottom line is that the ordinary citizen needs to be protected from mistakes and from abuse of power. Once the government takes power from people they rarely give it back. It is possible to preserve our basic civil rights and fight terrorism at the same time. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. We don’t have to turn into some kind of fascist state to preserve our security.
I read this on the website of Human Rights Watch:
“Last year, when the Law Lords (Britain’s highest court) ruled unanimously against the use of evidence gained through torture in British courts, Lord Bingham, the senior law lord, said he was “startled, even a little dismayed” that the government could raise the question in the first place. The use of such evidence is explicitly prohibited by the UN Convention against Torture, to which Britain is bound.”
Also from HRW on the use of torture through history:
<<The argument that the anti-torture rules were “out of date,” designed for an era of “gentlemanly behaviour and white gloves,” was specious. In reality, the four core Geneva Conventions—each of which bans “cruel treatment and torture”—were agreed in 1949 with the exceptional brutality of the Second World War, in Eastern Europe and the Far East especially, very much in mind. The Geneva Conventions, like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the European Convention on Human Rights, negotiated and agreed at approximately the same time, were intended to ensure that such nightmares would not be repeated.
The preamble to the Universal Declaration makes this context clear: “…disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which outraged the conscience of mankind… it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights be protected by the rule of law…” >>
Full article here: http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/eca/uk1106/2.htm
I think parents need to take more responsibility over their kids behaviour and those that can’t handle their kids should be given support. There also needs to be more discipline in schools and more youth programmes to keep them occupied during their free-time. It would also help to have more police on the streets or at least PCSOs or wardens or some kind of visible deterrent. There are too many feral teenagers causing havoc in our communities.
I think there should be a photo database of every resident within a borough held by the local council. That way, if cctv picks up an incident, or if someone witnesses/is a victim of a crime, then the database can be searched and a suspect can be found.
Didn’t Griffin say in relation to muslims something along the lines of “It’s better to do them before they do you”?
Griffin already has one conviction for inciting hatred against Jews, but of course the BNP isn’t neo-nazi in any way. Heaven forbid!
Soon Nick and Mark will be playing naked leapfrog with muscular men in the shower block.
Yes Drivel it’s rare for innocent people to be brought in for questioning during an investigation, so there’s no harm in torturing them. Michael Howard was asked to answer some questions by the police recently therefore he must be guilty of something isn’t that right Drivel? Some people say that innocent people occasionally end up in prison or on death row. Of course this is an absurd allegation made up by tree-hugging hippies who are soft on crime and want to appease criminals.
Yes, the UK and USA have infallible systems of justice where no mistakes are ever made. We might as well do away with the judiciary because who needs courts when nobody ever abuses their power or makes mistakes. Trials are just an invention of soppy liberals with their bleeding-heart human-rights agenda. We need summary executions and death squads to keep Britain safe from the terrorists. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to be afraid of.
Yeah! What’s with those foreigners bringing their religions over here like Christianity and Judaism? We all need to strip naked and do a dance to the Green Man.
I mean the nerve of some people thinking they can wear whatever they want in a free country. We should all have sensible haircuts, wear tweed blazers, corduroy trousers and sensible shoes.
It’s Bonfire Night soon. Can’t we have a speedy trial and then chuck them on the bonfire? Oh what a pretty thing a fire is.
Yes Drivel, it couldn’t possibly happen to you could it? Everyone who is ever taken in for questioning over a crime is a criminal aren’t they? It’s rare for officials and bureaucrats to make mistakes isn’t it? Everyone accused of being a communist during the McCarthy era was a communist weren’t they? Yes Drivel, it couldn’t possibly happen to you because the world is black and white and nobody ever makes mistakes or abuses their power.
Remember the notorious 82 yr old terrorist Walter Wolfgang who heckled Jack Straw and was thrown out of the auditorium? The police prevented his re-entry into the conference building under “anti-terrorism” legislation. There are also those evil terrorists who protest against arms sales to foreign dictators and get arrested under “anti-terrorism” laws. No, the state would never abuse its power Drivel so let’s give them all the power they want without limitation or over-sight. Big Brother will take care of us.
Drivel, you’re an absolute idiot. What’s happening now is worse than Watergate and is a modern equivalent of McCarthyism. What sort of moron would support the government torturing people? Answer me this, what would you say if it happened to you? What would you say if the authorities turned up without a warrant and tore apart your house and your belongings in a search? What would you say if you found out that they had put a tap on your phone and a keylogger on your computer all without court approval? What if they decided they had to torture your wife and kids because you didn’t give them the answers they wanted? If you don’t stand up for your rights then you can kiss them all goodbye.
Effectively, the terrorists are winning if some people are so petrified that they surrender their freedom to the government. If we allow the government to manipulate the public and perpetuate a climate of fear for their own ends and if we allow them to create an a quasi-fascist state then we will inevitably destroy our values, change our society for the worse and hand the terrorists a victory over us. It’s an act of cowardice to give up your values in the face of a threat. Hysterically lashing out at the muslims/arabs in our society only breeds dischord and aids the cause of our enemies. It takes more courage to stand by your principles in the face of danger than to panic and give everything up. So while Drivel and American Woman might be waving their white flags in the hope that Tony and George will protect them from the big bad terrorists, the rest of us will face the threat with more dignity and will not compromise the values of our free society just because we’re in danger.
