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I still say that if you go abroad you should behave yourself and not needlessly offend your hosts. Some people don’t think they have to do that and they behave in the same loutish manner as they do at home. For the minority who behave like that they should have their passports taken away from them for 10 years or so to prevent them embarrassing the country again.
Again PB you’re being irrational. How is an attack by one group of combatants on another bunch of combatants an act of terrorism? You’re saying all soldiers are terrorists.
You really need to stop and reflect for a second on the nonsense that you’re spewing out. As I said before, you defeated your own argument. You sit there moaning about terrorism while at the same time condoning collective punishment and murder. It’s idiotic and hypocritical.
The fact remains that the law is on the side of the ordinary palestinian. But you’ve made it clear that you think that if some people break the law then it’s ok for everyone else to do it and that law should be ignored. Punishing innocent civilians for actions they took no part in is a war crime. It’s a breach of the Hague Convention and 4th Geneva Convention. No doubt you will try to justify war crimes. You’ve become the resident apologist for state terror and war crimes.
I keep thinking that you and Tommy are just saying this stuff for a laugh because you’re both being so ridiculous. But then again you’re both probably Tories and tories do have a habit of being pompous and over-the-top.
PB you’re condoning these violations of international law and human rights and as I said before that kind of mindset is completely irrational. How can you condemn the terrorists for mudering women and children when you’re effectively saying that human rights and international law don’t matter. There is no logic in your argument. You dismiss the human rights of Palestinian civilians in the same way that militant groups disregard the human rights of Israeli civilians, so your argument reeks of hypocrisy. An argument based on gut feeling and not rational thought is not an argument at all. The crux of your argument seems to be that might is right and the ends justify the means which makes you a lot like those followers of al qaeda or members of Islamic jihad.
You also adopt the view that collective punishment towards the Palestinians is justified. It’s another absurd viewpoint because once you follow that principle to its logical conclusions then you end up in ridiculous scenarios. I mean you end up in scenarios where you justify the punishment of a completely innocent individual simply because he holds a particular country’s passport. Not only is it absurd it defeats your entire argument. Applying your own rationale of collective punishment being a justified tactic, then all Israelis deserve to be punished for any wrong-doing carried out by any single Israeli or group of Israelis. Therefore you justify attacks on Israeli women and children and your entire argument falls to pieces.
Well-reasoned arguments are far better than arguments based purely on prejudice.
Sorry PB but your analysis defies logic. You’re basically saying that international law and human rights don’t matter. If you follow that argument to its logical conclusion then the genocide that Milosevic tried to carry out in Kosovo was ok, Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait was justified and Bin laden’s attack on sept 11 was ok too. You can’t have a world where nobody obeys international law, it would take us back into the dark ages.
I just think you people have no idea about the sort of human rights abuses that have been going on there on a daily basis. Palestinians have been tortured, murdered, they’ve had their land forcibly taken from them, they’ve had their homes bulldozed (sometimes while they’re still inside them), children have been murdered and tortured too, people have been used as human shields by Israeli soldiers, ambulances have been fired on with machine guns and tanks, paramedics have been shot at while carrying out their duties, ambulances with dying patients inside have been kept at checkpoints for almost an hour. freedom of movement is restricted, tanks, helicopter gunships, artillery, f-16s fire upon densely populated civilian areas, people are held in Israeli jails for years without ever being charged with any crime…..etc. Check with any human rights organisation including b’tselem and you will see that there is a disturbing level of abuse going on. Why would hundreds of israeli soldiers refuse to serve in the Occupied Territories if there was nothing sinister going on there?
The wall that the Israelis are building was deemed illegal by the World Court because it’s not built on Israel’s border. It cuts deeply into Palestinian territory and is seen as an attempt to annex Palestinian land. You can’t go around stealing other people’s land. Hitler tried the same thing. He decided that his neighbours were subhuman and that their land was rightfully his. He drove out the original inhabitants and got ethnic Germans to move into the newly conquered land. Now we see Jews from Eastern Europe moving into the Occupied territories, land that they stole from the Palestinians and land that they believe is theirs by divine right. The parallel with the nazi policy of “living space” is quite stark.
How can you seriously say that the Palestinians should be satisfied with what they have when what they have keeps being taken from them? When the settlements expand what do you think they build them on? Do you think the settlements are built up in the clouds? Do you think their “security fence” doesn’t need ground to be built on? You don’t build settlements unless your objective is to annex somebody else’s land. You don’t celebrate the capture of jerusalem and call it “the eternal and undivided capital of the Jewish state” if you have any intention of ever giving Palestinians control of East Jerusalem.
The bottom line is that the mandate that gives Israel the right to exist gives the palestinians a right to a state on the West bank. If you don’t believe in the mandate then it follows that you don’t believe in Israel’s right to exist because without the mandate there is no right. You can talk till the cows come home about how you think the Israelis are entitled to the golan and the west bank and jerusalem but your opinion isn’t worth sh1t because there is no entitlement to those things. The fact that no country apart from Israel recognizes the occupied territories as being part of Israel proves that your opinions about Israel’s rights to that land are worthless.
I just think some people don’t know how to behave in public especially when they go abroad. I mean if you go to Germany, get drunk and rowdy and then start insulting the Germans well that’s just asking for trouble.
I think hooligans and other anti-social types will get a big wake-up call when the world cup is held in South Africa. They won’t tolerate that sort of stuff over there. If the locals don’t sort you out then the police certainly will.
Well Israel eventually got a legal mandate to establish the state of Israel. There can never be a legal mandate for Israel to illegally annex palestinian land without the agreement of the Palestinians. This is because the occupation violates the UN charter, UN security council resolutions and the 4th geneva convention. Palestinians have the law on their side, Israel doesn’t and until that changes then it will only be the Palestinians who will be vindicated.
I know tommy wants to reduce this into a pro-jewish vs. anti-jewish argument but that’s just idiotic because a significant amount of Israel’s own population and many Jewish people outside Israel do not support the occupation of Arab land. I’ve spoken with Jews on this issue even members of the Israeli military and it’s clear that there is a willingness among some of the Israeli population to end the occupation and have a 2 state solution. This is an idea that is shared by the PLO and not completely out of the question with regard to Hamas.
As I always say, Israel holds all the cards and until the USA decides to put pressure on Israel there will be no real progress in the peace process. An end to the occupation of Arab land would be a giant step forward for the peace process. But US politicians need votes and money from the Jewish lobby and Christian fundamentalists so they adopt a namby-pamby approach to the resolution of this conflict. If the democrats and republicans had balls then this conflict would have ended a long time ago. Land for peace is the only solution, anything short of that will not work.
I agree with Emma, let’s not waste our taxes on prosecuting these nazis. Just crucify them upside-down and then set the crosses on fire (poetic justice). Glad we finally see eye-to-eye Emma.
Proves my point though. You denounce the Palestinians but history will vindicate them just like Mandela, Ben Gurion, Kenyatta, etc.
I’m trying to work out whether PB is a screw or a an oink oink. It would explain a lot about what goes on around here.
This thread is such bullsh1t but then again it was started by Ugo. I guess the people he met on the train were on their way to the jobcentre to pretend they couldn’t speak english.
Think about it? Ugo a football fan upset about people talking loudly and swearing? Do me a favour. I’ve seen people fight in front of their children outside football grounds, so I doubt your average football supporter is going to be upset about people talking loudly and swearing. Sounds like another jackanory by Ugo.
As for RCMP wearing turbans. Turbans are part of the Sikh religion not just cultural decoration. Every Sikh male has to wear some sort of religious head-gear as part of their faith. It’s not optional if you want to be a Sikh. What’s the big deal anyway if a policeman wears a turban? Does it affect his ability to do his job? Does a mountie’s hat have special powers?
