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OK I realise that this thread has the potential to get heated but I’m kind of hoping that we’re all adult enough to have a sensible discussion!
Political correctness sometimes seems to have gone mad with people jumping up and down on behalf of others who really aren’t that bothered. It seems that we’ve gone from one extreme, out and out prejudice, to the other where we bend over backwards to keep everyone happy, often at cost to common sense. Quite rightly, people are starting to push back when things have been taken too far so hopefully we’ll start to find some balance in the near future, some middle ground where everyone’s needs can be accommodated (and yes, I am aware I’m describing a kind of Utopia but I live in hope!)
However…
I am getting increasingly confused about what racism is and isn’t. For me it is quite simple, it is making judgements or behaving in a certain way towards someone purely because of their ethnicity – and that applies to positive behaviour as well as negative behaviour. Whether if is because of prejudice or ignorance is immaterial to whether it is racist or not, the cause doesn’t change what it is, it simply helps decide how to correct it.
Why am I confused?
John Terry makes derogatory comments based on colour to another football player; he is found to have made racist comments but is not considered a racist.
On another thread Rusty has said “they had fears and concerns which may have arisen out of racism but doesn’t necessarily make them racist.” Sorry to pick this out Rusty and I acknowledge that it is being used out of context but it is an example of something I’ve heard several times recently, i.e. “he has concerns because of their race but he’s not racist.”
I find myself at a loss to understand how someone can use words, have fears, hold preconceptions, based on ethnicity yet not be considered a racist yet it is something I keep hearing/reading. So in all good faith I am asking:
What does the word racism mean to you? what makes you view a person as racist?
Fingers crossed for a sensible discussion [-o<
i believe racism to be offensive language either written or spoken towards another person with either a different colour skin or even extending to just another nationality
i think the term ‘racism’ is taking on another meaning in the 21st century……… from the days of slavery, windrush, and apartheid to the present day where immigration has changed our society into a vast array of multi cultural groups of people.
Verbal or physical abuse against another person because of their race.
It is not skin colour specific.
So racism is just about verbal or physical abuse?
So as long as I don’t say bad words or beat someone up because of their race, I’m not a racist regardless of what my views are?A couple of years ago a local business man made a generous offer to the school that his children go to. He offered a £10 WHSmith book voucher to go into the school bags of each child joining the school that year…there was one stipulation, he and his wife were to put the book vouchers into the bags themselves along with a personal note. The school agreed. Fortunately one of the teachers had a little niggle and checked the bags, only to find that vouchers were only put into the bags of the white children who didn’t have foreign-sounding names and that none of the non-white children had a voucher. They had to quickly go and buy vouchers for the bags of the excluded children so that there wasn’t an issue, which meant dipping into school funds for an unplanned expenditure. I said that I would have removed all the vouchers and returned them to him saying “thank you but it’s for all of the children or none of them” but he does such a lot of good work for the school that they didn’t want to upset him and lose future goodwill.
To me that is racism but there has been no verbal or physical abuse…
“Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.”
@jen_jen wrote:
So racism is just about verbal or physical abuse?
So as long as I don’t say bad words or beat someone up because of their race, I’m not a racist regardless of what my views are?Anyone is entitled to their views – it is not against the law to hold those views – the BNP are evidence of that.
For me though, a racist is somone who goes a step further with physical or verbal abuse.
@jen_jen wrote:
A couple of years ago a local business man made a generous offer to the school that his children go to. He offered a £10 WHSmith book voucher to go into the school bags of each child joining the school that year…there was one stipulation, he and his wife were to put the book vouchers into the bags themselves along with a personal note. The school agreed. Fortunately one of the teachers had a little niggle and checked the bags, only to find that vouchers were only put into the bags of the white children who didn’t have foreign-sounding names and that none of the non-white children had a voucher. They had to quickly go and buy vouchers for the bags of the excluded children so that there wasn’t an issue, which meant dipping into school funds for an unplanned expenditure. I said that I would have removed all the vouchers and returned them to him saying “thank you but it’s for all of the children or none of them” but he does such a lot of good work for the school that they didn’t want to upset him and lose future goodwill.
To me that is racism but there has been no verbal or physical abuse…?
He’s demonstrated his racism physically.
Physically to me can mean writing offensive slogans on a wall, not necessarily violence.
Just to clarify, I’m not asking for a legal definition of racism, I’m asking what the word racism means to you personally and what makes you view someone as racist.
I’m trying to understand what is considered racism by society, in today’s culture, rather than legally as I seem to not have the same understanding as others that I hear/read about and I am genuinely confused.
@pepsi wrote:
“Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.”
The above is a quote …yes but that is exactly as I see the term racism.
In addition, briefly …
Views, practices and actions ( as above )
Discrimination.
Hatred or intolerance.It’s a very difficult one to define and understand Jen.
:?:
@panda12 wrote:
@jen_jen wrote:
A couple of years ago a local business man made a generous offer to the school that his children go to. He offered a £10 WHSmith book voucher to go into the school bags of each child joining the school that year…there was one stipulation, he and his wife were to put the book vouchers into the bags themselves along with a personal note. The school agreed. Fortunately one of the teachers had a little niggle and checked the bags, only to find that vouchers were only put into the bags of the white children who didn’t have foreign-sounding names and that none of the non-white children had a voucher. They had to quickly go and buy vouchers for the bags of the excluded children so that there wasn’t an issue, which meant dipping into school funds for an unplanned expenditure. I said that I would have removed all the vouchers and returned them to him saying “thank you but it’s for all of the children or none of them” but he does such a lot of good work for the school that they didn’t want to upset him and lose future goodwill.
To me that is racism but there has been no verbal or physical abuse…?
He’s demonstrated his racism physically.
Physically to me can mean writing offensive slogans on a wall, not necessarily violence.
But he hasn’t abused anyone.
I consider it to be racism by exclusion, however a friend (playing devil’s advocate) argued that he hasn’t actually done anything against anyone, he has just done something for someone, something that he didn’t have to do so should be appreciated by those that did receive a voucher. I countered that this was discrimination based on race and was therefore racism…my friend agreed but said that her argument was based on what one of the teachers had said to her :shock:
@jen_jen wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
@jen_jen wrote:
A couple of years ago a local business man made a generous offer to the school that his children go to. He offered a £10 WHSmith book voucher to go into the school bags of each child joining the school that year…there was one stipulation, he and his wife were to put the book vouchers into the bags themselves along with a personal note. The school agreed. Fortunately one of the teachers had a little niggle and checked the bags, only to find that vouchers were only put into the bags of the white children who didn’t have foreign-sounding names and that none of the non-white children had a voucher. They had to quickly go and buy vouchers for the bags of the excluded children so that there wasn’t an issue, which meant dipping into school funds for an unplanned expenditure. I said that I would have removed all the vouchers and returned them to him saying “thank you but it’s for all of the children or none of them” but he does such a lot of good work for the school that they didn’t want to upset him and lose future goodwill.
To me that is racism but there has been no verbal or physical abuse…?
He’s demonstrated his racism physically.
Physically to me can mean writing offensive slogans on a wall, not necessarily violence.
But he hasn’t abused anyone.
I consider it to be racism by exclusion, however a friend (playing devil’s advocate) argued that he hasn’t actually done anything against anyone, he has just done something for someone, something that he didn’t have to do so should be appreciated by those that did receive a voucher. I countered that this was discrimination based on race and was therefore racism…my friend agreed but said that her argument was based on what one of the teachers had said to her :shock:
Was it racism or xenophobia?
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