-
Posts
-
You want a referendum to end Scotland’s membership of the UK
Au contraire again Rodders. I’ve just told you on the contrary, yet you still conclude this. I asked nicely last time, you didn’t listen, I shall ask nicely again, please stop putting words in my mouth, or at least come to better assumptions.
So in a referendum, you would want and vote to keep Scotland in the UK??
Yes, most definitely. !! The reasoning behind my first claim stems back to the first Scottish referendum and the how the words “marriage” and “divorce” were bandied about to describe the situation. I liked those words to describe that and now this situation.
So, if I’m in a marriage, a somewhat reasonably happy one, and my spouse has serious reservations about whether she wants to continue with the marriage, she has a vote, not once, but now twice, with her family whether to divorce me or not, and only didn’t divorce me first time because her family voted against it, I would have to seriously consider for myself if this is a marriage I want to continue. I may well want to file for a divorce myself, wouldn’t you?
So the rest of the UK having a referendum too could be interesting. Scotland might get re-assurance from an overwhelming yes vote, feel wanted and loved, and be encouraged to continue with the Union. Or the opposite, a resounding no vote, “let’s divorce bitch”, which would make their then imminent independence all the more easy. But either way, it is a marriage, and we have to re-evaluate just how happy a marriage it is. I’m sure as neighbours we will have the most amicable of divorces should it get to it. I would hate to see the UK break up.
I’m also quite happy to accept what the majority want, regardless of my own beliefs.
That’s really too personal, to think of it as a divorce between partners.
It’s not human beings here.
Scotland had a once-in-a-lifetime vote, expected to last a generation. There was a (pretty) decisive vote to keep the union. Normally, that would have been it.
But since that referendum the world has changed – bigtime. We voted brexit, a major change to say the least. Everything has been thrown into the air. The Scots – EU- and immigrant-friendly – accepted the referendum but warned that if the exit was hard they would be forced into a second vote. May has gone for a very hard brexit as her negotiating tactic. Sturgeon was forced into a referendum. I she loses, there won’t be a third for a long time.
It’s a damned difficult choice for both countries. I hope the Nats lose, and that most Scots will vote to stay in. The world will change a lot in the next couple of years, though, and nobody can be sure how this will play out.
What I welcome is the fight shown by Sturgeon. She’s opened a war on two fronts just when may is beginning extremely tough negotiations withe Brussels. may thinks she’ll win a referendum when it comes, but she can’t be sure. many Tories are very firm unionists, and don’t want a break, May included.
So Sturgeon will be acting as a pressure, a warning of the strongest kind, not to make Brexit too hard. It shows Corbyn up. If may comes back wiht no deal – whihc is highly likely after two years – and insists on a hard brxit, then ais it worth an impoverished Scotland being tied to an impoverished England ruyled by the daily mail and the Tories for years and years to come??
fascinating times.
You are a touchy man, aren’t you,saying I’m putting words in your mouth. tut. I’m asking you what you think, love, not putting words into your mouth. You reckon you’re more touchy than Gerry? You’re probably not, that guy has a very short touchpaper attached.
The EU referendum was already on the Conservative party manifesto when the Scotish referendum started, and it was fairly clear that they would be winning the general election at the time.The Scotish people voted knowing they would have to accept the result of that if they stayed.
But you din’t address the point that I made about Scotland not qualifiying for EU membership because of it’s budget deficit. The SNP would have to make significant cuts to public spending, possibly even priviteising whatever is left of their NHS assets.
Drac,
France, Italy etc have deficits which are illegal, and they’ve had them for sometime. Who knows what terms will be on offer? If you read that again, it answers you, I think.
Scotland is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. The Barnett formula is likely to go after the UK leaves the EU; England just won’t be able to afford it, and my information from newspapeers is that may doesn’t want it kept.
The deficit they run, the health services etc., are going to be at risk whatever choice they make.
The point I made is that things are likely to change very quickly in the next two years.
I hope Scotland votes to stay. There are good grounds for them to vote either way, and the consequences are going to be painful for them in the short term either way (they will be almost certainly very painful for the UK).
But if they do choose to leave the UK, it will be no more irrational than the UK’s scary decision to leave the EU.
What I love about it is the politics. The decision of Sturgeon has thrown a real spanner in the works.
Before it, May was free to negotiate a hard brexit, even a horrible brexit. The labour opposition was pathetic, the Lib Dem opposition too small inn numbers to have an effect.
Now, she has a war on two fronts. She’s engaged in a negotiation where she has to have an eye on the Scots.
What will happen? Who knows, but at last there is an effective opposition.
I just hope Corbyn wakes up and takes note.
The rules were different when they joined, and they had different deficits then, you might also notice than several of the member states are blocked from entering the Eurozone until they meet a certain level of budget deficit. Only the UK and Denmark have an opt-out from this system. Scotland wouldn’t havea currency, so they would want to transition into the Eurozone as quickly as possible.
It is absolutely more irrational, as Cotland is a very poor country with a small population, The UK is the 5th largest ecconomy and the 2nd largest military power (depending how you measrue it).
Sturgeon has very little power outside of Scotland, I don’t think she can pose a credible oposition to May. She is just using the referendum as a distraction from how badly the SNP are managing Scotland.
Not how I read it.
Two reasons why I choose not to look at the many reasons Scotland should vote to stay with the UK.
One is that I hope it happens. It’s not rational to leave. There are good reasons to go, good to stay. You mention the deficit, and earlier you mentioned other things. You’re right.
Two is that the rules of the game could very well be different in two years time. We have no idea of the special terms which Scotland may gain. Maybe none. But really, the EU may well look very different in two years time.
A very large number of Scots want independence, and all the indications are that Sturgeon is playing for independence full stop. She’s never made any bones about it. A call for independence isn’t a political ruse to divert attention from a government which remains solidly based. She believes in it and wants it.The majority of the Scots parliament will support her, and May will then have to respond.
As I say, the crucial thing here is that may now has a war on two fronts. She is a convinced unionist. She thinks that Scotland will vote to keep in the UK, and that will settle the question once and for all.
But she’s not sure.
Best keep her eyes on the Scots as she negotiates.
Great! Corbyn, fgs take note.
Get involved in this discussion! Log in or register now to have your say!