-
Posts
-
I have not posted about the Tragic and Brutal murder of Jo Cox because, although I was horrified at the time, still am, I did not follow the events leading up to the conviction of her killer closely. Ge and Sceptical seemed to have a lot of knowledge about it. I tend not to post on matters that I’m not clued up on. The reason I liked Gerry’s post may well be a little misleading, but I do know of many people who have been convicted of crimes and treated totally inappropriately because they should have been given help not just slung away in a jail, as their mental health issues were either not recognised or ignored. Bringing mental health issues to the forefront will always get my approval. It had nothing to do with Nazism or anything else.
As I said, you were careless in liking Gerry’s post.
You thought it was mental health, when in fact it was because Thomas Mair was a Nazi. As you said, you were misled because of your concern for mental health. Nobody’s accusing you of anything.
I’m at least as concerned with mental health as you are. I worked with terminally ill children with horrific mental health problems. People very close to me have suffered terrible mental health problems, and I had to handle them.
The psychiatric report, the revelation of Mair’s Nazi past, the manual he bought on how to make a gun (note Gerry’s point on this!), and his hatred of Jo Cox for her anti-Brexit campaign led him to murder her. His mental condition was not the reason for the murder; the psychiatrist judged him not to have diminished responsibility.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/23/thomas-mair-slow-burning-hatred-led-to-jo-cox-murder
Nobody expected you to post on this, but You can follow the arguments presented on both sides in this thread..
I’ve seen you do meticulous research on Alfie’s graphs and you did hard research to find the thread on Jo Cox two years ago. You can do the work and the thinking when you want to – when you want to. All you needed to do was to read my original post and the Guardian link.
We all have a care for the mentally ill, a huge proportion of the country suffers it on one way or another, including child murderers. Some crimes – such as the Soham murders or the brutal murder of little Sarah Payne – mean that the concern we have for the mental problems of the killers are outweighed by the horror of the crime. Nobody can bring back their mother to Jo Cox’s two small children.
As Max Scott, the lawyer who noted some legal points on the conduct of the trial because of Mair’s refusal to cooperate (some of those points are answered in the Guardian link), concluded – “the prospect of spending the rest of his life in prison must be a terrible thing but this was a terrible crime and there will be very few, outside the neo-Nazi community, that will feel sorry for him . Jo Cox’s family will have at least the small consolation that justice has been done to her killer.”
Very few, outside the neo-Nazi community.
I never said I was carless, don’t put words in my mouth as you do others please
‘You thought it was mental health, when in fact it was because Thomas Mair was a Nazi. ‘
I never said any such thing, re-read.
I’ll order your medal tomorrow ok ? having to deal with mental health issues , what a hero
I didn’t meticulously research any graph its simple google lol
You totally patronising turd lol ‘ hard research to find the Jo Cox thread lol nice one …
Personally you are starting to concern me, you are at the point of egomania and switching every post and talking point to some how making yourself feel better about what you type, even if it is incorrect !
Take a well earned break
yes I know I said I wouldn’t respond but blatant lies ?
You Mr Scep Lie !
No more of my time will you get
shameful for a Christian ? to be so manipulative and false shameful
Done
yes I know I said I wouldn’t respond but blatant lies ?
You Mr Scep Lie !
No more of my time will you get
what a bizarre, over-the-top response from this and the preceding post.
I said that you were careless in liking Gerry’s apology for a Nazi murder, after you said you had been misled by the problem of mental health.
Where did I say that you admitted that you were careless??
If I got you wrong, explain why you think Mair the court has judged mair to have murdered Jo Cox for political reasons, and that his mental health issues are not legally relevant. this judgement is accepted by all but neo-Nazis and their apologists.
For this, I’m a turd, a liar, a shameful manipulator. What in hell is wrong with you?
You agree with this Nazi apologist, then have the courage to say so. When he accuses me of inventing the fact that Mair was a Nazi murder, he gets a like.When I refute it, and distance you form his outrageous claims, I get the accusation that I’m a turd and a liar.
What do you actually believe? Nobody anywhere accepts that Mair killed Jo Cox for mental health reasons, yet Gerry goes sailing off into the world of wacky woo, claims that he is speaking on behalf of women victims of domestic violence, gives himself a mark of flying colours for his barr oom lawyer claims, fantasises himself into Ruskin College awarding him this mark, and goes sailing off into the realm of wacky woo.
Not a word about this weird and wonderful behaviour.
Instead, pouring fun on my work and my life dealing with the mentally ill, and telling me I’m a turd and a liar.
Explain, or is there more to you than meets the eye??
The mental health tag is used far too often to condone or mitigate actions so I’d like someone to define what constitutes ” mental illness” and assuming illness implies health what constitutes being “mentally healthy “. I have said numerous times that many on this board and site fit the criteria of being what could be construed as “mentally ill” – on the lower end of the scale we have Mister Q rolling around laughing to himself like the joker from batman clearly suffering some kind of illness and then we have killers of Jo Cox.
People are accountable for their actions , Brady and Hindley were “mentally ill” but it doesn’t detract from their evil actions nor should be used to lessen any repercussions from a legal perspective. The killer of Jo Cox doesn’t represent the far right as the percentage of people committing an atrocity like that would be too miniscule to reflect any kind of political leaning. If I was pro animal rights and blew the head off a fox hunter with a sawn off shotgun, it wouldn’t be indicative of my animals rights status.
I agree with what you say about the Far Right.
I agree because most people of the Far Right aren’t actual killers. The actual Nazi killers are a really minuscule number among the Far Right, or the police would have cracked down on Britain First etc them, in the way that ISIS has been treated. I find the politics of the Far Right obnoxious, but they’re not killers. Mair was an isolated character, National Action has been banned and their conspirators are on trial, but in general Far Right organisations, like all Brexiteers (with a possible jc exception) distanced themselves from his brutal murder.
As far as mental health is concerned, I think mental health is an issue. If someone is paranoid schizophrenic, they are seen as mentally ill – it doesn’t excuse their crime, but they can’t be treated like ordinary criminals.
In fact, the very people you mention are examples of mentally ill (at least abnormal) people who have not been excused by society. They are either placed in Broadmoor, like the Ripper was, or they receive psychiatric reports which point out that they have mental health problems but that this doesn’t affect the crime.
This is what happened to Mair. The fact that someone doesn’t change their underwear from week to week is certainly evidence that they need help; the fact that the same person goes on to kill someone is a crime, and the criminal is locked up along with the likes of those who butchered Lee Rigby.If there is a mistake made – and there can be mistakes – then an appeal process is in existence, and there are mental health advocates who will use it. I see no problem here.
I’m sure there may be some Muslim equivalent of Gerry who has produced bizarre questions as to how the State has framed the people who chopped Lee Rigby up, and anyone who questions that muslim will be accused by some other oddity of being a turd and a manipulative liar. That’s the way that politics operates on the fringes of the weird and wonderful.
You agree with this Nazi apologist, then have the courage to say so.
Just in case this figure of speech is used…let me clarify, after being accused of being a turd and a liar by you.
To be totally grammatical, I mean “If you agree with this nazi-apologist [Gerry], then have the courage to say so.”
You say that you’re very open to mental health problems, and ready to give a nazi killer the benefit of the doubt. But then you pour scorn on me for saying that I’ve worked with terminally ill children with mental problems, and have had to spend most of my life dealing with the mental problems and consequences of one individual.
WTF?!!
I think the mental health argument is largely irrelevant as you could argue, if someone was a “Nazi” they were mentally ill anyway rendering the whole topic a moot point.
My point regarding the killers sceptical was that some like the Yorkshire ripper end up in a mental institution as you say , but then cannibals like Dahmer are considered sane and placed in prison. The killer of Jo Cox was carrying out his version of a Nazi ideology but in doing so fits the criteria of what society deems to be mentally ill- infact any killer could fit into this category as taking a life doesn’t fit within the threshold of “normal behaviour” which is why the mental health argument doesn’t stand up.
All that really matters is the melting pot of nurture/ nature has created the personality he has carrying out the crime he perpetuated and he faces the consequences.
I also find it bizarre what terms society labels as fitting into the wide umbrella of this mental illness. Lets look at 2018 society and a typical life corresponding to what normality represents., Mr Smith is born , attends school/ college / university for the first quarter of his life ( 20 years or so) learning a curriculum largely full of useless information he won’t ever need again. He gets a job working in the rat race forced to wear a tourniquet round his neck to show subservience to society in the form of a tie commuting to an office for 45 years in a job he probably dislikes. During this time he marries as it’s the social norm , a ceremony involving saying until death do us part that half of people don’t keep to ending in divorce, marrying in a church representative of a pagan way of life slowly dying out. He pays tax during this time to corrupt government officials until the age of 65 where statistically he has less than a quarter of his life left and he is “allowed to retire”.
After receiving a pen for his years of service wasting the best years of his life in a stuffy office, he eeks out the remaining years of life pottering round the garden with slowly deteriorating health , likely loneliness with relatives dying and ends up being buried in a wooden box. At the age of 68, Mr Jones might nip down to the doctor saying he is depressed, ah says the doctor a common ” mental illness” and gets his course of anti depressants …who the hell wouldn’t be depressed with that template of existence constituting what society deems normal. It’s a natural emotional state to the utterly ridiculous society we live in. Depression isn’t a mental illness, it’s a natural state of mind to a finite existence in a life surrounded by idiotic ideals.
1 member liked this post.
I absolutely agree with the last post, rude boy. Well put.
I was told of one man bullied to torment in his workplace (bullying takes the form of ganging, where numbers of people pounce under the leadership of one or two, very effective).
The guy became so bad that he was sent to a psychiatrist. The employer said that he must be some kid of nut.
The psychiatrist, who had had experience of said employer, told the victim that he was normal as they come. He said that it was like a soldier from the Great War Battle of Passchendaele who was being sick, fainting, constantly agitated. It’s not the soldier who’s mad; it’s the situation.
The earlier post I’m less happy about. I know that some people use mental illness as an excuse to escape prison. There is certainly a difficult distinction to make about mental illness being responsible for the crime, and a political ideology like being a nazi, as Mair was. But there are cases where mental illness is the definite cause. If someone is paranoid schizo, subject to illusions, then that person is not responsible.
I remember a guy turning up to walk with us when my first was born. I really wasn’t happy with him, but my partner was attached to him by friendship. He was telling us that a monster was chasing him. I thought, no it’s not, you’re just a nut, keep away from this baby. But a monster was chasing him in his mind. He attacked his father brutally one day, and then threw himself off the Clifton Suspension bridge. I don’t think you can say he’s responsible for his actions in the same way that Mair was. Mair was certainly having problems of mental health (being an isolated Nazi, which can make you a bit depressed), but being a Nazi isn’t a sign of someone out of control – he killed while fully in control.
Similar story with the Christian Nazi, Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people, mainly Young Socialists, in Norway in 2011. This is hardly normal behaviour – but it was his choice, and they put him inside the slammer and threw the key away, as they have done with Mair.
Both are Nazi killers – simple.
Get involved in this discussion! Log in or register now to have your say!