Them Migrants!!

well most solutions are good for the people who actually caused the economic crisis in the first place. The problem is for the rest of us, who have to pay the bill for the big party they had. It was a great party. Shame we weren’t invited.

Yes, homelessness among young people alone is a real problem. begging and homelessness have been rising for a long time now.

And there are one million empty homes!

We are in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, yet child poverty is on the increase. Why? According to Shelter, the housing charity, it is because property developers are turning houses into luxury flats, forcing existing tenants into homelessness and sub-standard accomodation.

And there are one million empty homes!!

I’m getting kinda tired of hearing the problems we have being used as an excuse not to do anything to help anyone.

Helping the poor and homeless is a number one priority in this country, yet we’re actually cutting sickness benefits and tax credits! In one of the welthiest countries in the world. Rather than using poverty as an excuse to turn people away to their death, a more positive attitude is needed on how to overcome poverty here.

Putting our own house in order and helping others go hand-in-hand – they aren’t either-or..
Helping with harbours close to their own home is certainly needed (the EU is negotiating wiht Turkey) to make the refugee situation here more manageable, but all these measures have to go hand in hand.

The EU has an agreement to take 54,000 refugees from any country which is taking too much and redistirbuting them. Sweden is about to ask for help in that, and Germany is considering. With 48,000 refugees landing on lesbos last week, we’re talking of a crisis which is growing.

And that crisis is directly caused by our country. Blair admitted on US telelvision that Iraq was wrecked by bad forward planning, and that IS has appeared thanks to the invasion of Iraq.

Now the economy isn’t a zero-sum game. That’s not how it works, despite claims by anti=-refguee and anti-immgrant groups that it is so.

But in the end, it comes down to a country which is worthy of being defended. I think that there are genuine fears throughout Eeurope of this refugee surge and governmens are doing nothing to address them, whihc means scare tactics can be used by Far-Right groups.

Don’t be fooled.

Ms K, you have made some good points – I will try to address them when I ahve time ( not much at this moment in time, sorry).

Ms K, I’ve been ahving an ongoing conflict with Trapper about values, and I’ve neglected to answer some of your points. This is a shame, as you’ve obviously been reading about this issue carefully, and your points are very thoughtful. So I’m risking a roundup of your posts and attempting an answer to some of them.

Others wcan either put up with the length or ignore it. Forgive the typos.

I hope this helps to widen the discussion a bit, though in the end it does come down to values – the sort of coutnry you want to live in, the sort of people we are.

@kent f OBE wrote:

I get the fact we need to put our own house in order….unfortunately that is never going to happen is it?…the NHS has been going down the pan (no pun intended) for years…houseing shortage has been a growing issue since the selling off of council houses…..so basically we will never ever even in 100 yrs get our house in order….lets face it we as a country are up shiit creek and have been for a while…every country has its own economic problems….including these countries who are taking in refugees..
However….an example for instance…..if somthing catastrophic happened in the UK that lead to many many people fleeing to another country for safety……would we all think its a valid argument to make sure they had their house in order before they took any of us on? Like hell we would…we would expect in this day and age humanity….think nothing of the fact that another country could take any number of people from the UK…
That point maybe be a good argument but it still does not change peoples views Scep…..if someone will not get properly treated for cancer…or a child suffers due to not having an opersation due to cutbacks….it will still be wrong in the eyes of British people who have paid into the system, when they see their money spent on housing refugees….sad..wrong..inhumane…selfish….whatever…but fact

I don’t think that this country has been going down the chute, but its services have, espcecially welfare and health. The reasons for this need to be carefully thought about, though, because we are one of the richest countries in the world. However, if you commit to raising taxes and putting all of your priorites into the needs of making more money, then something’s got to suffer.

I think overcoming our social problems and helping refugees go hand-in-hand. If a child dies of cance because of the need to house a refugee, then that is wrong. That’ swhy we can’t take in the 22 million refugees in the world. That’s why we can’t take in all the refugees from Syria, Libya, Afghanistan. We have to work out what our economy and society can absorb, and we have to wrok in harmony with the EU, some of whom are meaner thanw e are (eg Hungary) and soe shine by contrast with us (Germany and Sweden). We have to tackle our own problems and take in refugees – we’re not Trapper’s house, or my house, or yours – we’re bigger than that, and we can afford to take in a larger number than the piffling 20,000 the govt. has been talking about. After all, we could afford to bomb them out of their own country.

But whatever the EU decide you may not agree..then what? We are never going to make everyone happy….if we make the majority happy does that make it right for the minority?
Say we take in a huge number now….and in a few yrs time another country needs us to take in more…..when does it end…..I wish it was a simple solution….
You may say we need to deal with the present and not speculate the future….but that is what everyone does… in politics…in our own families…we have to look to the future to make educated guesses for what we do in the present
Like I said…I wish it were simple

You’re right, it’s not simple. It’s a question of working at several levels – taking in refugees into our own country; working at the forefront of the EU in helping and pushing other countries, providing money to Greece, Italy and non-EU countries like Turkey and makng sure that money is spent on making conditons in their camps more hygienic and humane (a tall order, given the numbers of refugees there). Even then, this is likely to be inadequate.

Trapper I think most of know including Scep there will nothing temporary about taking in the refugees…..you cannot stamp their status as” temporary until seen fit by whatever government in power to send you back to your homeland”
Imagine that?….will they stipulate any children born here have not citizenship rights?….Do we suddenly yank 5/6/7 yr olds out of school and send them back? People in employment suddenly told to go? The refugees will be going back to nothing back home..most peoples houses after years will either be derilict…in disrepair…or not even a brick standing….imagine a country like Britain sending people back to that?
Anyway historically crises like these go on for decades

Yes, it does look that way, Ms K. The militarism of this country under Thatcher and Blair is coming back to us isn’t it? You can’t kill people en masse and get away with it, really – not in the end. Now that stands to reason?

But whatever the EU decide you may not agree..then what? We are never going to make everyone happy….if we make the majority happy does that make it right for the minority?
Say we take in a huge number now….and in a few yrs time another country needs us to take in more…..when does it end…..I wish it was a simple solution….
You may say we need to deal with the present and not speculate the future….but that is what everyone does… in politics…in our own families…we have to look to the future to make educated guesses for what we do in the present
Like I said…I wish it were simple

Phew, there’s a lot there, Ms K. The decisions o the EU on this are really the decisions of the British governemnt working with other governments. If a government doesn’t agree, then it can refuse – Hungary is taking the nasty approach, and if you look at their politics and past, it’s not surprising. I would throw them out of the EU if I ahd any say. Once the decions is taken, it has the force of law, whether popular or not. That is the case of any decison made by the British government. Given the concerns and fears in this cuntry (and everywhere in teh EU) it should be explained carefully. But wiht this lot busy attacking the most vulnerable people in Britain and working hard to pander to the worst prejudices of the UKIP vote, we can’t expect much fmr them. So there could be social problems.

One thing I agree with you on, Ms K – it ain’t simple.