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“Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit.”
That one’s for Kenty :wink: and although I’m hardly at my wit’s end, I’m feeling much better this morning (THANK YOU ALL FOR ASKING!!! :evil: :evil: ), so I’m sure most will be glad to hear that this will probably be my last post on this thread as a trip to the park with my little girl is long overdue.
Right then.
Speaking of quotes, have a butchers at these two from earlier on…@wordsworth60 wrote:
Why was Panda considered racist in voicing her opinion that the way immigration was introduced in this thread was itself racist?
Yet the noble Words then went on to say not one page later…
@wordsworth60 wrote:
I don’t think Panda actually referred to it being racist, neither did she introduce the subject – so if she played a ‘card’ surely any fault should lie with the person who dealt it? (not that I think there’s a fault as such) As the thread was about the future of future generations compared to previous ones, I thought introducing eastern European immigration into the UK as a major factor was a bit incongruous as the problems existed prior to EU expansion and beyond the UKs boundaries.
Repatriating eastern Europeans and leaving the EU isn’t going to change the fact that the UK Christmas is delivered on a few container ships from China rather than in lorries from UK factories.
The current version of events is..
@wordsworth60 wrote:
Not calling him a racist or using the word racism or characterising him as such and yet he’s so convinced!!!
Panda, may I enrol for your “Increase Your Powers Of Suggestion” course? I could rule the bloody world from my armchair!!!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Leaving the sneering arrogance of this final entry aside for a mo (together with the somewhat manic use of smilies), what does all this tell us?
First up of course is that the deference and “attention” shown to panda by Words is much more than I could ever assemble.
But that’s immaterial.The real elephant in the room as far as any fair minded person would be concerned is how did Words get from quote 1 to quote 2 here?
And, more importanly, how was it so readily accepted?
How can panda “voice her opinion” that the introduction of immigration was racist by not having “referred to it being racist”?
Both statements are highlighted in bold type.
Have a look again.
Does this make sense to you?
No.
Nor I.
But in the language of the “victim” and it’s apologists, this kind of thing is commonplace.This, friends, is where the Kevin Myers article comes into sharp focus and this is (and was) my only true concern with regard to this thread.
Fair and judicial use of the same language by all.
Yep, The Future of language.For there are no better examples of this dichotomy in language and the freedom (or lack of) to express and interpret it than these instances above.
Words, as you can see, was well able to change his tune accordingly once any kind of heat came on (from poli in this instance).
This A La Carte interpretation of things was a luxury never afforded to Terry.
His interpretation was damned before it ever got off the ground as “typical” and , as we shall see, much more.For Words and Panda, apparently it’s “calling” someone racist or “using the word racism” or “characterising” someone so that signifies the stigma.
All very well.In Terry’s case though, negative observations on immigration are enough to bring about dismissal, and the intimation of racism.
This perceived intimation was enough to condemn him here.
Defending his right to express that opinion, we had these little nuggets thrown back at him by panda.
Have a look..@panda12 wrote:
@terry wrote:
@sceptical guy wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
Just love the way that somebody has to bring immigrants into it. Typical. :roll:
in full agreement with you there, Panda
Oh I’m so sorry for daring to bring my opinion into it.
Opinion? Xenophobia? Racism?
When I was a kid growing up it was the Indians and West Indians who got the blame for all the ills in this country.
Now it’s the East Europeans.
Boring!
Note that this was posted a mere two minutes after poor Mrs Teapot became infamous as the first person to dare to use the actual word “Racist”.
Such are the inch like margins when some choose to take miles.Far from intimation on her part, in my opinion panda at the very least “characterised” Terry as racist here.
No.
Why?
Because she said she didn’t.
Oh.. Ok.
So did Words, eventually, (in one of his many interpretations of what she actually did say).
So, that’s grand.It’s not though, is it?
As can be seen, Mrs Teapot’s introduction of the term “RacIST” was manna from heaven for these linguistic pick n mixers, and just like that panda’s use of”RacISM” was forgotten. Mrs T’s comments “introduced” the subject apparently, despite panda’s use of the word “Racism” posted a mere two minutes later. From there on in we were treated to vistas of spin and counterspin that Terry couldn’t even approach without being subject to the strictest censure.
Chief among these was the likes of Words’ spurious logic with the whole phantom card dealer gig.
Later inversions include the ludicrously playground-like – “Panda still didn’t call anyone racist and could have had other reasons for rolling her eyes.”- together with the appeal for me to acknowldege the times I myself may have been subject to racism – a statement I found personaly insulting in it’s insipid assault on my intelligence.
For I would never indulge in such mantra of the “victim”.
Why?
Because I’m not one.
Get over it.Btw this was about two thirds of the way through when Words was in his “possibly racist” phase regarding Tel’s post.
See where it’s going?
Uh huh.
Nowhere.
And that’s the point.You see this whole Is it / It could be / Possibly Racist thing gives carte blanche to some and a straitjacket to others when trying to express opinion.
Most notably on a subject like immigration, to the point where any real debate is rendered null and void before it can even begin.
It mirrors the entrenchment witnessed on the subject beyond this site.. as illustrated by Mr. Myers.Before any possible condescension or “thank you for the attention” I may or may not receive in the aftermath of this post, and regardless of the triumphalist sneering, ridiculing and baiting of Terry witnessed on these later pages.. all I ask of any fair minded person here, is to go back and read this thread with what I and Mr. Myers have said in mind, and of course, come to their own conclusions.
Thanks.
*Reads all that codswallop and faints!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wot Pepper said :D
LOL, I gotta laugh @ Pepper’s last post. I guess I must have done something to upset him to warrant such unnecessary, yet sustained attention!
Seems Pepper has a very perverse understanding of “racism.”
@panda12 wrote:
LOL, I gotta laugh @ Pepper’s last post. I guess I must have done something to upset him to warrant such unnecessary, yet sustained attention!
Seems Pepper has a very perverse understanding of “racism.”
To be fair Panda, a lot of people don’t understand racism, either as a word that could be defined (regarding one race as superior or inferior to another) or recognising it when it occurs, beyond the most obvious name-calling.
Pepper is no better or worse than many who prefer to either keep their heads below the parapet or perhaps to consider what the experience of others might show them. Fair play to him for being prepared to reveal his thoughts.
In terms of the subject of the thread, I think the consensus to ‘come together’ as people still exists but, that it’s threatened by an inadequate vocabulary and an uncertainty about what is to be gained.
Only words? Maybe, but words are the weapons and the currency of the politicians and power-mongers who decide so much of our future.
@panda12 wrote:
LOL, I gotta laugh @ Pepper’s last post. I guess I must have done something to upset him to warrant such unnecessary, yet sustained attention!
Seems Pepper has a very perverse understanding of “racism.”
It’s probably because your posts would be more at home on the Jeremy Kyle Show’s message board forum than on here (assuming that Jeremy Kyle has a message board).
Pepper’s posts are excellent btw.
@wordsworth60 wrote:
To be fair Panda, a lot of people don’t understand racism, either as a word that could be defined (regarding one race as superior or inferior to another) or recognising it when it occurs.
Never mind the word “racism” Wordsworth; how about the word “stupidity” which you seem, singlehandedly, to have given a whole new meaning to.
:roll:
I guess what gets me about this entire thread is Kenty didnt mention immigration, or the EU in her original post.
Kenty was simply pointing out the next generation are going to do worse than the last. Why can’t the reasons for that be discussed without the likes of Terry bringing immigration into it?
Afterall, immigration to this country has being going on for centuries, it’s not a new phenomeon and hasn’t adversely effected the economic progression of this country before.
Seems to me that there will, in any economic downturn, be a scapegoat whether justified or not.
well, this discussion has grown – and soured – since I last looked at it.
The issues are too important to just throw my hands up in frustration, though – yet, but keep tryng folks I’m sure you’ll succeed in making me.
The varied posts of poli and Terry indicate th problem of the discussion, if not the subject of people becoming worse off.
Poli agrees with what a lot of Terry says, but is trying to make something out of the debate. This is very difficult when Terry casts slurs of stupidity at everybody who doesn’t agree with him – party politics gone ugly, which obscures debate rather than illuminates it.
If you ahve good points, Terry, make them carefully and rationally so that they come across as persuasive to people reading them, or people are just going to skip your posts as shock-jock politics.
Can we either treat this as a debate for grown-ups or not take part in it? You can disagree, even be wrong, without having to throw insults around to cover up your own lack of a persuasive argument.
I single out Terry because I notice it most starkly with him. I don’t like Pepper’s posts either, but they can be discussed, they’re making a case. I’m sure Terry can point to other people obscuring discussion (and I like the points made by panda and words so I admit bias), but that’s beside the point. The point is to make a persuasive case.
Two points seem to emerge dramatically – one is whther immigration is the cause of the p[roblem and whether this discussion of immigration is racist.
The second is whether the nature of the economy and banking system is the cause of the problem, and the relationship of the already existing social problems of housing, teen pregnancies, the health and educational systems, etc to the dangerous state of the economy in the world at the moment.
Those are very controversial points, about whihc passions run high and disagreement is intense. FGS, it’s because of that intenisty that we need to be more rational.
I know – like a pee in the Pacific me saying that, but I’m saying it.
These are both complicate problesm, and I’ll make my points about them in order and soon
@terry wrote:
@wordsworth60 wrote:
To be fair Panda, a lot of people don’t understand racism, either as a word that could be defined (regarding one race as superior or inferior to another) or recognising it when it occurs.
Never mind the word “racism” Wordsworth; how about the word “stupidity” which you seem, singlehandedly, to have given a whole new meaning to.
:roll:
I have? Oh the Power!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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