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Posts
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@momentaryloss wrote:
It therefore comes down to ideology.
In reality it comes down to profit and loss and the EU is (always has been and always will be) a trading loss for the UK.
It’s all very well to say we can’t survive without being members of the EU, but that is a completely ridiculous standpoint to have.
China isn’t a member of the EU and they are major traders with all European nations.
Membership of the EU is not a prerequisite for trade and our future well-being is dependant on abandoning the political union we have with the EU.
I was thinking about the referendum on staying in the EU… they say it will be a straight yes or no vote … yes stay in…. no leave.
The thing is if I voted yes…. what am I voting for? people who voted in the 1973 referendum did not vote for the EU we now have… the EU is unrecognisable from the entity the UK joined…what Im trying to say is if we are to vote yes,,,, surely we need some assurances what Yes means.
Its unlikely the EU will stand still…. more likely it will expand and become a federal superstate possibly with its own parliament…all Im saying is as well as thinking about leaving we should consider what staying in means too
@terry wrote:
@momentaryloss wrote:
It therefore comes down to ideology.
In reality it comes down to profit and loss and the EU is (always has been and always will be) a trading loss for the UK.
It’s all very well to say we can’t survive without being members of the EU, but that is a completely ridiculous standpoint to have.
China isn’t a member of the EU and they are major traders with all European nations.
Membership of the EU is not a prerequisite for trade and our future well-being is dependant on abandoning the political union we have with the EU.
China has a huge, huge population and huge, natural resources. In comparison, the UK is tiny and barren.
Along with Brazil, Russia and India, China (collectively they are known as the BRIC nations) are the up and coming economies of the World and they all have one thing in common – they can be self suffiecient and they can export such goods whilst having to import very little.
The UK has no such luxury. We simply do not have enough natural resouces in which to maintain a state of autarky without importing and this has been the situation throughout history. It is no coincidence that the UK was at its most affluent when we had the Empire which gave us riches galore.
Since the political and social conscince kicked in towards the latter part of the 19th century and the Empire nations were (slowly) given back their own independence, this country declined as a World economic and industrial power.
Europe should have no say over our political and social structure or how we spend our internal revenue but we cannot afford to be isolated from them when it comes to free trade.
@panda12 wrote:
Europe should have no say over our political and social structure or how we spend our internal revenue but we cannot afford to be isolated from them when it comes to free trade.
In other words we should just shut up and take it up the a.rse because if we don’t we won’t be allowed to increase our already huge deficit by importing from fellow European countries? :roll:
@terry wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
Europe should have no say over our political and social structure or how we spend our internal revenue but we cannot afford to be isolated from them when it comes to free trade.
In other words we should just shut up and take it up the a.rse because if we don’t we won’t be allowed to increase our already huge deficit by importing from fellow European countries? :roll:
:shock:
I am writing this very slowly as it is obvious English is not your first language.
@panda12 wrote:
@terry wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
Europe should have no say over our political and social structure or how we spend our internal revenue but we cannot afford to be isolated from them when it comes to free trade.
In other words we should just shut up and take it up the a.rse because if we don’t we won’t be allowed to increase our already huge deficit by importing from fellow European countries? :roll:
:shock:
I am writing this very slowly as it is obvious English is not your first language.
Writing it slowly doesn’t stop me from reading it quickly.
@terry wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
@terry wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
Europe should have no say over our political and social structure or how we spend our internal revenue but we cannot afford to be isolated from them when it comes to free trade.
In other words we should just shut up and take it up the a.rse because if we don’t we won’t be allowed to increase our already huge deficit by importing from fellow European countries? :roll:
:shock:
I am writing this very slowly as it is obvious English is not your first language.
Writing it slowly doesn’t stop me from reading it quickly.
Still obvious that English isn’t your first language, though. :wink:
Maybe it’s Polish? :D
@panda12 wrote:
@terry wrote:
@momentaryloss wrote:
It therefore comes down to ideology.
In reality it comes down to profit and loss and the EU is (always has been and always will be) a trading loss for the UK.
It’s all very well to say we can’t survive without being members of the EU, but that is a completely ridiculous standpoint to have.
China isn’t a member of the EU and they are major traders with all European nations.
Membership of the EU is not a prerequisite for trade and our future well-being is dependant on abandoning the political union we have with the EU.
China has a huge, huge population and huge, natural resources. In comparison, the UK is tiny and barren.
Along with Brazil, Russia and India, China (collectively they are known as the BRIC nations) are the up and coming economies of the World and they all have one thing in common – they can be self suffiecient and they can export such goods whilst having to import very little.
The UK has no such luxury. We simply do not have enough natural resouces in which to maintain a state of autarky without importing and this has been the situation throughout history. It is no coincidence that the UK was at its most affluent when we had the Empire which gave us riches galore.
Since the political and social conscince kicked in towards the latter part of the 19th century and the Empire nations were (slowly) given back their own independence, this country declined as a World economic and industrial power.
Europe should have no say over our political and social structure or how we spend our internal revenue but we cannot afford to be isolated from them when it comes to free trade.
How do you know they will have no say over our political and social structure and our internal revenue…..we have no assurances of that…. and harping back to the days of the empire really has no relevance at all. As I see it there are three options…. status quo stay as we are… win some arguments lose some and hope that the ones we lose don’t swamp us completely….. negotiate a trading treaty like Norway and Switzerland.. which means we can continue to trade but will have no say in the political decisions and we can choose which of their decisions to implement here …. or negotiate an agreement with the USA and trade with the rest of the world
If we chose the latter…..People will trade with us the EU may look for vengeance and be difficult for a while….. but no one actually knows how much we trade with them anyway and I suspect the figure is lower than estimated as presently some of the our world exports travel through Europe and are counted as EU exports which is misleading
@mrs_teapot wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
@terry wrote:
@momentaryloss wrote:
It therefore comes down to ideology.
In reality it comes down to profit and loss and the EU is (always has been and always will be) a trading loss for the UK.
It’s all very well to say we can’t survive without being members of the EU, but that is a completely ridiculous standpoint to have.
China isn’t a member of the EU and they are major traders with all European nations.
Membership of the EU is not a prerequisite for trade and our future well-being is dependant on abandoning the political union we have with the EU.
China has a huge, huge population and huge, natural resources. In comparison, the UK is tiny and barren.
Along with Brazil, Russia and India, China (collectively they are known as the BRIC nations) are the up and coming economies of the World and they all have one thing in common – they can be self suffiecient and they can export such goods whilst having to import very little.
The UK has no such luxury. We simply do not have enough natural resouces in which to maintain a state of autarky without importing and this has been the situation throughout history. It is no coincidence that the UK was at its most affluent when we had the Empire which gave us riches galore.
Since the political and social conscince kicked in towards the latter part of the 19th century and the Empire nations were (slowly) given back their own independence, this country declined as a World economic and industrial power.
Europe should have no say over our political and social structure or how we spend our internal revenue but we cannot afford to be isolated from them when it comes to free trade.
How do you know they will have no say over our political and social structure and our internal revenue…..we have no assurances of that…. and harping back to the days of the empire really has no relevance at all. As I see it there are three options…. status quo stay as we are… win some arguments lose some and hope that the ones we lose don’t swamp us completely….. negotiate a trading treaty like Norway and Switzerland.. which means we can continue to trade but will have no say in the political decisions and we can choose which of their decisions to implement here …. or negotiate an agreement with the USA and trade with the rest of the world
People will trade with us the EU may look for vengeance and be difficult for a while….. but no one actually knows how much we trade with them anyway and I suspect the figure is lower than estimated as presently some of the our world exports travel through Europe and are counted as EU exports which is misleading
We are a small fish in a very big pond. Harping back to Empire has lots of relevance.
Some people in this country need to get over a nostalgic hankering for the past when we did literally rule the World.
We don’t anymore and haven’t for a long, long time. If the big, European nations like France and Germany want to isolate us and make our life very, very difficult, they can and they will when it comes to trade. No doubt they will maintain free trade amongst themselves but impose crippling tariffs on us.
Do we produce enough food and fuel etc to maintain ourselves if we were outside of Europe?
You asked:
“How do you know they will have no say over our political and social structure and our internal revenue…..we have no assurances of that.”
It’s my opinion that they should not.
If the UK ever left it would – hopefully – start a breakup of the union as a whole.
Let’s face it: it was Hitler’s plan to invade Europe and form a federation of European nations with himself as the dictatorial head of state.
His vision is fast becoming become a reality despite the widespread opposition to it.
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