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When a new leader chooses the anthem of a foreign entity over that of your own country it is a sign that the culture and identity of your nation has been lost.
I do not support Macron’s presidency, and I will never indentify myself as being French while he is president.
I guess you’re not French for the next five years then…
and here’s me wanting to be *sigh
I thought the BBC was bad until I spent time in France recently to vote. The state media in France constantly puts out complete nonsense, like how Britain is leaving the EU because Russia rigged the ballot counting, and how Le Pen’s campaign is directly funded by the Kremlin. I couldn’t find a single person who didn’t believe this to be true.
Not to mention the armed police, and soldiers patrolling every street corner in Paris, it’s terrible.
Well, armed police and soldiers are there because there’s a state of emergency.
I wouldn’t worry too much. macron’s desire to reform the Euro is a good one, and Merkel may even concede to him once her election is over in September.
Very few people actually support Macron – about 16%, from what I gather.
The rest voted against Le Pen.
His pro-market policies run against the grain for the french. His labour reforms are first, and they’re the ones which are going to involve a real fight.
Much can happen in the next five years..much to play for.
Politics is becoming very interesting.
Well, armed police and soldiers are there because there’s a state of emergency.
It didn’t stop people from running into polling stations and stealing Le Pen ballots, of which there are a few videos of people doing online.
For people who don’t know how French voting works, I will explain it. When you enter the polling station you will see piles of cards with the candiate’s names on, you pick up the ballot you want to vote for and place it into an envelope and then place it into the ballot box. What people were doing is stealing the Le Pen cards so that nobody could vote for her until new ballots were taken out of storage or printed. This probably cost her a few votes from people who didn’t want to wait around for new ballot cards to appear. I doubt this made any difference to the outcome of the election however.
I wouldn’t worry too much. macron’s desire to reform the Euro is a good one, and Merkel may even concede to him once her election is over in September.
David Cameron tried to do that and he got nothing, the EU won’t even negotiate sensibly after we have triggered article 50. Instead they just leak private conversations and issue forever inflating bills that they refuse to explain how is calculated.
Regardless of any reforms he may want, he is still a European nationalist. Which is why I am upset that he won. His victory announcement was set the the EU’s anthem, not France’s, and he spoke of what I would translate as ‘a shared destiny for all Europeans’ in his speech.
His pro-market policies run against the grain for the french. His labour reforms are first, and they’re the ones which are going to involve a real fight.
This is one of the reasons I thought Le Pen would get more votes, the talk of her being far-right is nonsense, she is a socialist, as are most politicians in france. Which is why I voted for Fillon in the first round.
I guess you’re not French for the next five years then… and here’s me wanting to be *sigh
I’ll sell you my passport
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Well, I am wondering how to get a French passport.
You’re too pessimistic from your own viewpoint. This isn’t finished yet.
I was interested that you voted Fillon. It surprised me, though it shouldn’t have done, given your libertarianism.
I’m not a market enthusiast. I think markets are essential for economic growth, but they need to be directed in some way, and there needs to be all sorts of regulations and social safety nets to protect people.
I’m not sure how you reconcile your economic liberalism with your nationalism.
The most sophisticated liberal thinker of modern times is a guy called Hayek, and he was really keen on individual freedom, especially through the market. He used to regard the British nationalist politician, Enoch Powell,as his disciple. He used to say that Powell (one of the most intellectual of British politicians) was the only politician who really understood what he was saying.
But Powell asserted his nationalism in a famous speech, noted for pandering to racism, in whihc he called for strict immigration controls and the encouragement of Commonwealth immigrants to return to their country of origin. This was back in 1968 – I remember it well. I was at school at the time and was horrified by the support for Powell from teachers and pupils, and at the huge demonstrations of support – London dockers marched on Downing Street singing ‘I’m dreaming of a WHITE Christmas’, and ‘Bye Bye Blackbird’. There were a lot of physical attacks on black people whihc followed that speech
Hayek rejected Powell for this speech.. He said that liberal economic freedom meant the freedom of movement, including the freedom of labour to move across countries. To deny this, as Powell did, was to betray individual freedom.
Hayek saw the contradiction between nationalism and economic freedom. Do you?
Well, I am wondering how to get a French passport.
I think you have to live there for 5 years before you can naturalise, but i’m not sure I would have to research it.
I was interested that you voted Fillon. It surprised me, though it shouldn’t have done, given your libertarianism.
He had the best economic policies, and wasn’t afraid to publicly state that radical Islam is a problem that must be dealt with. I also thought his connections with Britain though his wife, and his interest in Thatcher would make him more understanding of why we voted to leave, which nobody else in France seems to understand.
I’m not a market enthusiast. I think markets are essential for economic growth, but they need to be directed in some way, and there needs to be all sorts of regulations and social safety nets to protect people.
Regulations yes, I think you have seen me support better consumer rights and banking regulations on here before. Social security i’m not so much a fan of.
The most sophisticated liberal thinker of modern times is a guy called Hayek, and he was really keen on individual freedom, especially through the market.
I know who Hayek is, although i’ve never read Road To Serfdom, which I have been meaning to do. I don’t really agree that he is opposed to individual freedom, without markets there is no way in which to express a choice economically.
But Powell asserted his nationalism in a famous speech, noted for pandering to racism, in whihc he called for strict immigration controls and the encouragement of Commonwealth immigrants to return to their country of origin. This was back in 1968 – I remember it well. I was at school at the time and was horrified by the support for Powell from teachers and pupils, and at the huge demonstrations of support – London dockers marched on Downing Street singing ‘I’m dreaming of a WHITE Christmas’, and ‘Bye Bye Blackbird’. There were a lot of physical attacks on black people whihc followed that speech
Powell was wrong certainly on some issues, but he also said that homosexuality ‘wasn’t an appropriate place for the law to operate’, which was a fairly progressive idea at the time.
Hayek rejected Powell for this speech.. He said that liberal economic freedom meant the freedom of movement, including the freedom of labour to move across countries. To deny this, as Powell did, was to betray individual freedom. Hayek saw the contradiction between nationalism and economic freedom. Do you?
Not really, but i’ve never said that there should be no migration either. Immigration is important for filling gaps in the labour market, I just wish the state would focus more on educating it’s own citizens to have the correct skills, and that immigrants were taken from countries with similar cultures.
Which would mean raising tuition fees on arts and social sciences, and lowering them on hard sciences, engineering and medical degrees. And prioritising immigration from the commonwealth, and the US first, and from Europe secondly. I don’t really see why we need immigration from anywhere else unless they want to become British.
And prioritising immigration from the commonwealth
The English speaking part of the Commonwealth specifically, and I probably should have included Ireland in my list too.
Pakistan shouldn’t be in the commonwealth, they don’t share any of our values. India would be a good candidate but it’s population is far too large, and poor to consider any kind of open border policy with.
Sorry for taking a while to answer, drac, been busy.
Hayek’s most famous book may be The Road to Serfdom, written in the later stages of the Hitler War, but it’s The Constitution of Liberty (1960) which is his most coherent and cogent argument for individual freedom through the market.
It conflicts with national culture and immigration controls because Hayek thought in terms of individual,s not cultures. Freedom pf labour to move across boundaries was as essential to liberty as the freedom to buy and sell goods across boundaries.
He certainly saw powell’s nationalism as contradicting his idea of freedom.
And powell had many strong policies – including opposing the Vietnam War and unilateral nuclear disarmament. Quite the complicated thinker m, was Mr Powell.
I still don’t agree with him.
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