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(btw, this liberal élite now includes the bulk of the Labour party and a large section of the trade union movement, who want a second vote on Brexit).
It is irrelevant what the liberal elite within labour want and have always wanted, or don’t want although I did expect Corbyn to stand his ground more firmly. Corbyn’s informal discussions with the EU must have led him to believe real reform is possible. The genie is out the bottle and can’t be put back in without anybody noticing. The European election result will determine what both labour and the tories do next. If labour run the next election on a pledge of a “confirmation” referendum, i.e rigged questions, then they are finished as a major political force, at least in the region I live. UK politics was due a major shakeup and Brexit has provided a major shakeup. What emerges from the ruins of a failed political system remains to be seen.
I agree money (advertising revenue) drove the JK vehicle, we have already covered that but again it is irrelevant in context of the wider societal attitutes it helped drive and in my opinion Brexit has reshaped the political landscape permanently in the UK. Suddenly politicians want to be seen”caring” about sections of society they have neglected over the past 40+ years, including the liberal elite within New Labour who introduced the groundwork for ideological austerity immediately in the aftermath of the banking crisis.
Must be Politics…..well here’s my question…….most would agree that Politicians are greedy ,corrupt and self serving and history has never changed so why would any one be interested in Politics?….
well, q (whoever you really are, man or woman), we all understand your views about politics, and we can hopefully see you kiss all politics threads goodbye as not worth it. Otherwise, we can all ignore the stuck record that politics isn’t worth talking about.
I agree money (advertising revenue) drove the JK vehicle, we have already covered that but again it is irrelevant in context of the wider societal attitutes it helped drive.
No, money (or the lack of it) is absolutely relevant in everything in this world – whether politics or television of social media or marriage etc. This sort of social cruelty is deep seated in all classes, and it was only a matter of time before it hit the airwaves.
Kyle has filled a hole in the market. Until his bigshot mouth hit the screen, we were caught between the po-faced feel-good morality advice shows like Oprah, and the hilarious ain’t people weird shows like Jerry Springer. Springer would stage genuinely strange discussions – my guilty favourite was of the guy who was on with a mule, and you had to guess who his legal wife was. He was explaining that in Colorado the marriage laws were so liberal that you could literally marry anyone legally. The silence was gradually punctuated by a loud moan from somebody in the audience, followed by somebody else burying his hands in his face and calling out “oh God and Jesus, no!”. When the guy started tenderly kissing his mule, the place erupted, All the while Springer’s dirty smirk was getting wider and wider, and even the most strait-faced puritan couldn’t stop laughing..funny how they’re all called Jeremy or Jerry, isn’t it?
It was only a matter of time before someone like Kyle appeared, who blended the two types of show, dealing with ordinary people in an outrageous way. His moralistic ranting at vulnerable people, and his egging on the audience to scream at people whose lives were changed forever by lie detector tests was truly sickening and hypnotic. Like Springer, people were glued to the screen to see just what he would do or say next.
We’re discussing Kyle here, not liberal élites. The people who ran these shows had one thing in their minds only – money. The message Kyle was pushing was a Daily Mail morality, not a demonisation of the ‘underclass’ (an insulting American term).
You have a strange view of what a liberal élite is btw, but I’m sure you’re right that the genie is out of the bottle and that the ‘populist revolt’ will be discussed again before long.
well, q (whoever you really are, man or woman), we all understand your views about politics, and we can hopefully see you kiss all politics threads goodbye as not worth it. Otherwise, we can all ignore the stuck record that politics isn’t worth talking about.
I agree money (advertising revenue) drove the JK vehicle, we have already covered that but again it is irrelevant in context of the wider societal attitutes it helped drive.
No, money (or the lack of it) is absolutely relevant in everything in this world – whether politics or television of social media or marriage etc. This sort of social cruelty is deep seated in all classes, and it was only a matter of time before it hit the airwaves.
Kyle has filled a hole in the market. Until his bigshot mouth hit the screen, we were caught between the po-faced feel-good morality advice shows like Oprah, and the hilarious ain’t people weird shows like Jerry Springer. Springer would stage genuinely strange discussions – my guilty favourite was of the guy who was on with a mule, and you had to guess who his legal wife was. He was explaining that in Colorado the marriage laws were so liberal that you could literally marry anyone legally. The silence was gradually punctuated by a loud moan from somebody in the audience, followed by somebody else burying his hands in his face and calling out “oh God and Jesus, no!”. When the guy started tenderly kissing his mule, the place erupted, All the while Springer’s dirty smirk was getting wider and wider, and even the most strait-faced puritan couldn’t stop laughing..funny how they’re all called Jeremy or Jerry, isn’t it?
It was only a matter of time before someone like Kyle appeared, who blended the two types of show, dealing with ordinary people in an outrageous way. His moralistic ranting at vulnerable people, and his egging on the audience to scream at people whose lives were changed forever by lie detector tests was truly sickening and hypnotic. Like Springer, people were glued to the screen to see just what he would do or say next.
We’re discussing Kyle here, not liberal élites. The people who ran these shows had one thing in their minds only – money. The message Kyle was pushing was a Daily Mail morality, not a demonisation of the ‘underclass’ (an insulting American term).
You have a strange view of what a liberal élite is btw, but I’m sure you’re right that the genie is out of the bottle and that the ‘populist revolt’ will be discussed again before long.
How is Jerry Springer hilarious?
I dont get it scep, whats funny about a man kissing a mule? Why is it funny that a man marries a mule?
Its mocking people that arent “normal”
How was Kyle not demonising the underclass? I dont recall many of the liberal elite being on it.
How was Kyle not demonising the underclass? I dont recall many of the liberal elite being on it.
Nem,
Kyle was mocking vulnerable people, many of them ordinary working-class folk, and he was egging on other working-class folk to scream and shout at those vulnerable people. How were they an underclass? What is this ‘underclass? Does it differ from the working class?
Working-class entertainment is very different. Some really enjoy Kyle. Some enjoy football or sports. Some enjoy game shows, or talent-seeking entertainment. Many enjoy East Enders; some want entertainment which offers more than East Enders. Politically many want Brexit, but many are appalled at brexit. There isn’t any simple divide outside the cheap rhetoric.
And who in hell are the liberal élites? If by that you mean the well-educated (and by no means all of those are liberal), then their cruelty takes a very different form. If by that, you mean readers of The Guardian, then their liberalism would have been offended by the people-baiting which was on that show, and their ideology despises that demonisation. Much, if not most of the élites, are not Guardian readers. If you mean those who run tv, then again it falls down. The BBC was very liberal at the time of Huw Wheldon, or the early days of Channel 4, but since at least the 1980s that liberal ethos has been submerged by the needs of commerce and advertising.
This pop sociology of liberal élites and the underclass left behind figures large in the mythology being created by ‘populists’, many of whom actually belong to the élites. I think it’s a crap rhetoric, which misleads more than it illuminates. when it comes to entertainment as much as any other area of life.
There is no rational argument for censorship.
Drac, I agree when it comes to censorship of opinions,
but wouldn’t you censor child porn, or live televised dog fighting to the death, or watching public hangings?
How was Kyle not demonising the underclass? I dont recall many of the liberal elite being on it.
Of course the liberal elite did not appear as “guests”. It, JK, was part of the demonization on which we both agree and part of a wider picture.
The liberal elite get pissed in private clubs, bash their partners behind closed doors and all their dysfunction is hidden from view, deliberately so.
The torrent of establishment led abuse specifically towards the underclass has gathered pace over the past 10 years. Programmes like JK cynically tapped into that and countless other similar programmes, and the underclass, which all respectable social scientists in the UK (and worldwide) recognize, bore the brunt.
JK was a staple of university student life and it is just ludicrous to suggest it was entertainment for the lower classes and virtually every course at modern universities, but particularly social sciences and history etc, has modules covering this very issue.
Jerry Springer Show..a/k/a a talk show host who brings on people who think their married partner, boyfriend cheating on them. Also brings on people to expose marriage issues, sexual gender shockers so forth. The show represents people who get so outraged, men beat up other men as security tries to break them apart..or woman pulling hair rolling on floor with everything showing as too security breaks them apart. For many of us on this show watching it can be a form of omg…he did what..she did what with whom? Omg best friend, husband, wife brother in law shockers.. audience has turn making comments at end..
Final Jerry Springer line: ” Rember to be good to yourself and others.” Some times with Jerry pushing in own lines for so called helping…
Honestly bottom line..some people can not afford a service to investigate. By getting them on the show for free..truth found out hard way, but open for all to view. I can not for the life of me figure why people like to do those programs, and can only assume, speculate, getting public support on the final decision to stay or leave is the support many want or need to make a better decision for themself..the public helps with that support
Thanks, Linda. I’ve never watched more than a couple of episodes of Springer, so maybe I was wrong in thinking he was different from Kyle. I always felt that Springer has his tongue in his cheek, whereas Kyle is a genuine prick, but both engage in the telelvision of outrage and cruelty.
I’m still trying to work out what a liberal élite is, or who they are. At some point, it will be explained.
The divide on this thread is quite amusing……just like the show
not all good people do good things…..and sticking up for the underdog to make yourself look good is very transparent
when the show was aired it was “funny” watching the great unwashed air their dirty washing in public said the avid watchers of JC…..
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