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I know a lot of things that our president doesn’t. :wink:
As for 911 being the reason to settle family scores – Please tell me you’re joking. This isn’t grammar school. And let me know when it starts raining chocolate over in Europe so I can so I can fill my little pool up when it hits over here. :roll:Ok as for Geoff – I appreciate the light reading and everything :roll: , but no matter how many opinions there are against the war, there are just as many for the war. A member of a JC thread will not change my opinion and my support of our president. That’s the fabulous world we live in – everyone’s entitled to his or her opinion. But these terrorists scare the living cra p out of me. I’m glad that we’re not cowarding away from the fight they brought to us 5 years ago.
Of course it was to settle old family scores.
First thing Bush said when he heard about 9/11 was “Tell me it was Iraq”. When his aides made it clear it wasnt anything to do with Iraq, false evidence was manifested to make it seem like Iraq was involved.Let’s not forget in amongst all this that 9/11 could have been stopped before it happened.
Numerous warning’s were given that an operation was under way in America, and every single warning was totally ignored.
Bush and his cronies brought out ludricrous nonsense such as “mushroom clouds” above American cities if Iraq wasnt attacked, and that propoganda was bought by the people.George Bush is 100 times more of a threat to the the stability of the world than Saddam Hussein ever was.
Out of sheer curiousity, I wonder what would have happened if we re-wrote history and the UN (US + UK + others) didn’t invade Iraq. Saddam Hussein was still in power and so on.
What actual difference(s) would we see now?? Leave to one side the numbers of our own forces that have been killed – I was thinking more of the geo-political situation.
Any guesses anybody?
You won’t get anywhere arguing against BM and Geoff and the likes ; they are totally anti_american
Even if you did invade Zimbabwe – being the main example they choose – they would then find some way of dissing America for thatBefore the Iraq invasion the majority of people felt that something had to be done – America had the balls to do something – then all of the anti American pacifists crawl out of the woodwork
Back to the main point of the thread – I don;t think the people that lost their lives will be saddened at all at the way America has fought terrorism since 9 11
The goal posts have changed – you are dealing with extremists fanatics – people who have no value for their own lives let alone the lives of others
So the CIA are torturing these people to get information about terrorist cells etc IS that so bad ??
Don’t tell me it doesn’t happen all over the world to different degreesCAll it barbaric – call it what you want – if it stops atrocities then i think it’s justified
How many terrorist plots have been foiled – they are the ones we don’t hear about
@drivel wrote:
You won’t get anywhere arguing against BM and Geoff and the likes ; they are totally anti_american
Even if you did invade Zimbabwe – being the main example they choose – they would then find some way of dissing America for thatBefore the Iraq invasion the majority of people felt that something had to be done – America had the balls to do something – then all of the anti American pacifists crawl out of the woodwork
Back to the main point of the thread – I don;t think the people that lost their lives will be saddened at all at the way America has fought terrorism since 9 11
The goal posts have changed – you are dealing with extremists fanatics – people who have no value for their own lives let alone the lives of others
So the CIA are torturing these people to get information about terrorist cells etc IS that so bad ??
Don’t tell me it doesn’t happen all over the world to different degreesCAll it barbaric – call it what you want – if it stops atrocities then i think it’s justified
How many terrorist plots have been foiled – they are the ones we don’t hear about
The key word’s there Drivel is “before the Iraqi invasion the majority of people felt that something had to be done”. They only felt that way because they’d been fed a pack of lies about Iraq’s involvment of 9/11, and of it’s possesion of Weapons of Mass Destruction. I think if you looked at the opinion polls now you would find quite a difference in opinion.
Sure, Secret Agencies in the USA, the UK and other places indulge in underhand stuff. Bush is happily expanding these operations though to include more CIA prisons around the world to expand the torturing and dissaperance of these suspects.
As has been pointed out in other threads America didnt give a damn when the Terrorism was happening in the British Isles. .FYI-Im not Anti-America either. I just think Bush’s a grave threat to democracy and freedom.
I liked Clinton. Clinton knew Saddam was a Paper Tiger. He sent a few Bomber’s in once in a while to give Saddam a bloody nose, but he knew he wasnt a great threat.
Clinton was a good President. Getting BJ’s from his interns. Very classy and very funny. I’d have went for a beer with Clinton. I dont think I’d wanna go for an Orange Juice with stuffy old GWB.@Bad Manners wrote:
5 years on, and I’m sure a lot of the victims of 9/11 would shudder at what’s been done in their name.
A distasterous illegal war against a county not involved in 9/11 in any way.
The dissaperance and random torturing of Terrorist suspects, which could and should be considered War Crimes. Bush denying the Red Cross access to these prisoners. Total disregard for the Geneva Conventions.
Bush passing laws in Congress to make him and his cronies unaccountable for these outrages.
You really gotta wonder what’s happening. Isnt there supposed to be laws in Democracies to stop this stuff from happening? The Laws seem to be getting rewritten to favour Nazi tactics.Really makes ya wonder on this day who the good guys and the bad guys really are.
Putting aside for one moment the onset of wars, whether illegal or otherwise……..I personally think what IS!! shameful, and i’m sorry if this offends you AM, but it’s the truth, is the way that the remains of the pple who died on that day, are left to rot, on a landfill site………… :shock: I think it’s absolutely disgraceful behaviour for a nation, who supposedly care so much about what happened.
Complete human remains will never be found, but at least some kind of burial ground, with name plaques commemorating those who died is the very least that George Dubya and his buddies could do,,,,,,,,,,,,not to mention the very least that the families left behind, should expect!!!
@geoff wrote:
I think our Drivel gets a little confused so don’t be too hard on him. I don’t think he differentiates between criticising a Government and it’s people. I lived in the USA for a year and loved the people. But much like I am proud to be English, I don’t have to agree with or like my Government, that doesn’t mean I have to hate the whole nation.
Be gentle with him. :wink:
I’m saying you are anti -AMERICAN meaning the government not the people – the only confusion is you
I don’t agree with all that our Government do either . I’ve been Tory since my Uni days – up until which I was staunch labourGeoff – Let’s just be thankful that you live where you do and I live where I do. Instead of criticizing our politics, criticize your own country for standing beside us in this fight. No country is safe with these radicals running around. Not my country and not your own country. So do you feel we should just coward away from them? We went into Iraq after 9/11 because it posed a threat. Iraq was and is breeding Islamic Fascism. It needs to stop. It’s dangerous to the world.
Cas – A memorial is in the works of being set up. But just because we don’t have statues in place doesn’t mean there isn’t a memorial. I’m certain that not one American can look at the New York skyline without getting emotional over what happened. The ghost of the World Trade Centers will always be there. Tons of e-mails and television broadcasts have been dedicated to the tragic loss. This is one that I was sent on 9/11 this year
http://gunstuff.com/america-attacked.html
No matter what is thought of Americans and their policies and politics – It’s a human tragedy. Al Queda went after the innocent not our military. They are crazy and need to be stopped. I’m glad we’re not cowarding away.
@American Woman wrote:
Geoff – Let’s just be thankful that you live where you do and I live where I do. Instead of criticizing our politics, criticize your own country for standing beside us in this fight. No country is safe with these radicals running around. Not my country and not your own country. So do you feel we should just coward away from them? We went into Iraq after 9/11 because it posed a threat. Iraq was and is breeding Islamic Fascism. It needs to stop. It’s dangerous to the world.
Cas – A memorial is in the works of being set up. But just because we don’t have statues in place doesn’t mean there isn’t a memorial. I’m certain that not one American can look at the New York skyline without getting emotional over what happened. The ghost of the World Trade Centers will always be there. Tons of e-mails and television broadcasts have been dedicated to the tragic loss. This is one that I was sent on 9/11 this year
http://gunstuff.com/america-attacked.html
No matter what is thought of Americans and their policies and politics – It’s a human tragedy. Al Queda went after the innocent not our military. They are crazy and need to be stopped. I’m glad we’re not cowarding away.
Fair enough AM. Having watched a few programmes about 9/11 over the last couple of weeks, maybe my wording was wrong in referring to a ”nation”. But certainly Mr Bush should feel very ashamed of himself.
I watched him on the 11th laying his wreath on that pond with his wife by his side, isn’t he lucky to have that priveledge……………if he could wipe the smirk from his face it might help!!! :shock:
Another programme was on here last night. It was about sifting the remains from that site. I’m pretty sure the guy was a Forensic Pathologist, he referred to it being a logistical nightmare. A lot of the bodies were recduced to mere dust, he explained that what he and others had to work with were little more than fragments of bone and skin. However AM, I still think that all stops should have been pulled out and it shouldn’t have taken this long. The relatives of those who died deserve better than this, you have to agree with that surely.
I agree with you too, that there can’t be a person with any amount of feeling that doesn’t look at the NY skyline and remember what happened, can still see it happening.
@geoff wrote:
@American Woman wrote:
Geoff – Let’s just be thankful that you live where you do and I live where I do. Instead of criticizing our politics, criticize your own country for standing beside us in this fight.
I criticise our donkey Government regularly. And I have every right to criticise your aggression politics.
No country is safe with these radicals running around. Not my country and not your own country. So do you feel we should just coward away from them? We went into Iraq after 9/11 because it posed a threat. Iraq was and is breeding Islamic Fascism. It needs to stop. It’s dangerous to the world.
Iraq posed NO threat, once again this was dispelled and I shall once again provide links if you so desire. Geneva conventions (or UN – sorry can’t remember) do not allow a country to forcefully enter another country purely on threat, so your Government should be liable to war crimes. Our country was safe until the Republicans decided to put a stop to it. I don’t remember the fundamentalism being anywhere near as bad under the Democrats.
No matter what is thought of Americans and their policies and politics – It’s a human tragedy. Al Queda went after the innocent not our military. They are crazy and need to be stopped. I’m glad we’re not cowarding away.
Cowarding away? The American Government are the biggest bullies of the 20/21st Century!
It took American citizens several years to wake up and smell the roses with the Vietnam conflict. However when they did protests happened nationwide, indeed all over the world to pull American troops out. Again, it may take several years, however the majority of American people will come to the realisation eventually of the reasons behind this war and demand action. It just seems to take several years before they realise they are being brainwashed.
I absolutely agree with what Geoff’s posted here.
AW-The War on Terror is one that ABSOLUTELY had to be fought. It had to be fought right there and then after 9/11. Nothing else would have been sufficent.
However the wrong country was attacked. As has been pointed out, according to international law a country cant be invaded purely on suspicion of guilt. The US (and UK) ripped that international law up when it suited them.
The result of invading the wrong country has been tens of thousands of angry young new recruits for Al Queda. The next generation of Al Queda Terrorist is here, and the US and UK have created this situation by their illegal invasion of Iraq.
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