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Posts
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@gazlan wrote:
Ok, let’s redefine the word “children”. :roll:
What this means is that the police have now decided to become judge, jury and executioner! On the one hand parents can be prosecuted for punishing their children, yet here we have the police who are there to “protect and serve” abusing children in this way. Some of these weapons emit surges of up to 50,000 volts, try it, pick up a live wire in your home, and see what you think!
If a child becomes violent where they cannot be controlled, then there are far less
agonising methods can be used to subdue them. The police are trained for this and we are talking about children here. Another example of state control enforced with violent people in uniform. These are new toys for the police, another way to enforce their will upon the public. Little wonder some children grow into the worst of offenders. Corporal punishment was a great excuse for bully teachers to intimidate children and was rightly forbidden.Don’t get me wrong, I realise some children are indeed devoid of morality, take the Jamie Bulger incident, or further back in time to the Mary Bell murders… these are some examples of children at their worst, however, children are children and MUST be treated so and their lawful rights protected at all costs. If they are guilty, then punish them, until a conviction takes place, they are after all, innocent.
I don’t propose to debate the moral decline of children in this country as that is a non-starter and can only involve assumptions. I do propose to condemn the use of these weapons against anyone, whether a child or not.
I agree completely.
@cherriepie wrote:
@gazlan wrote:
Ok, let’s redefine the word “children”. :roll:
What this means is that the police have now decided to become judge, jury and executioner! On the one hand parents can be prosecuted for punishing their children, yet here we have the police who are there to “protect and serve” abusing children in this way. Some of these weapons emit surges of up to 50,000 volts, try it, pick up a live wire in your home, and see what you think!
If a child becomes violent where they cannot be controlled, then there are far less
agonising methods can be used to subdue them. The police are trained for this and we are talking about children here. Another example of state control enforced with violent people in uniform. These are new toys for the police, another way to enforce their will upon the public. Little wonder some children grow into the worst of offenders. Corporal punishment was a great excuse for bully teachers to intimidate children and was rightly forbidden.Don’t get me wrong, I realise some children are indeed devoid of morality, take the Jamie Bulger incident, or further back in time to the Mary Bell murders… these are some examples of children at their worst, however, children are children and MUST be treated so and their lawful rights protected at all costs. If they are guilty, then punish them, until a conviction takes place, they are after all, innocent.
I don’t propose to debate the moral decline of children in this country as that is a non-starter and can only involve assumptions. I do propose to condemn the use of these weapons against anyone, whether a child or not.
I agree completely.
I doubt you would agree if you were on the receiving end of these “children.”
When do you stop molly coddling these thug children and make them take responsibility for their actions? When they’re in the adult prison system? You do gooders are actually doing more harm than good with your soft approach to these thugs / killers. They know their rights – they know what they can get away with and that’s the problem.
Gaz – you see this country as a police state – I don’t have a lot of time for some cops but one thing I do know, we do not leave in a police state.
@ Panda..
The discipline of children has been removed from their parents/Guardians hands and given to law enforcement.
They are using tasers to “discipline” these children…and although some children’s upbringing and their sense of right and wrong is obscured I hardly feel that a Milgram type discipline is appropriate for children!
This method started back in World War 2 and during the Nazi period ..(and still is used) Achieving complete obedience to immoral orders… and we are using them on the children of today!?
The child is left with a feeling of helplessness… Nothing more.
We.. the adults of the world.. including law enforcement… including the child’s parents should be using effective measures to assist them in achieving a healthy mindset.
Instead of using tasers.. and corrupting the child further…. use other methods… Use the power of Psychology… ( although irrelevant in this topic.. I feel that ADD children would benefit from this also) … we just are not willing to put in the time or effort for these children, we rather torture them… Label them as an A.D.D patient and give them drugs.
Sad really… I would rather get a smack from mum then get tasered that’s for sure. :roll:edit: typo :P
It’s a sad reality in this country that many children have been cast aside. It could be debated for ever and a day as to why this has happened. In reality, many parents have become victim to their own self indulgence, not wholly their fault. Living in a state that requires both parents to work all hours at all times will without doubt leave many children to fend for themselves. In many cases this happens when the child is very young.
Now you can bleat on and on about do gooders this and do gooders that, the bottom line is, parents are literally forced to leave their children in the care of others to go out and work , in some cases excessive hours to meet their needs. This I have not the slightest doubt will lead to a breakdown in family ties and relationships. The fall out from that will have many results. This will include the child becoming violent, aggressive, uncaring and so on . . .
You will be aware of the high numbers of youth now engaging in drug taking and excessive alcohol use alongside increasing promiscuity. We just need to consider the actions of adults after using these intoxicants to realise that the effect will be potentially worse with children.We have witnessed the state control of protests in this country, not least the death of Ian Tomlinson who unwittingly became entangled with protesters and lost his life at the hands of the police as a result. The state of affairs with the police in this country is that they are now corporate bodies, their objective now seems to be profit driven and as a result, quotas must be met, this can only have dire consequences in terms of crime fighting, whereby corruption will take place to ensure the targets are met and thus ensure adequate funding. It might surprise you to know that not everyone in this country gives consent to being “fenced in”. I have already stated that to break free from this control and unwanted “inclusion”, is virtually impossible.
And just to clarify for the idiots who will say, “If you don’t like it here then leave” . . . Well NO, this is my country of birth, this is where I live and this is where I will always demand my inalienable right to exist in peace without state or corporate interference thankyou very much!
ACPO—the Association of Chief Police Officers—is reported in today’s Mail to be holding a £500k “champagne gala” whilst 28,000 Police Officers face redundancy.
They can always dance their way to the dole office right ? 8) You can find this story following the link >
http://www.hmpbritain.co.uk/
A panda that eats shoots and lives ? :lol: :wink:@gazlan wrote:
Now you can bleat on and on about do gooders this and do gooders that, the bottom line is, parents are literally forced to leave their children in the care of others to go out and work , in some cases excessive hours to meet their needs. This I have not the slightest doubt will lead to a breakdown in family ties and relationships. The fall out from that will have many results. This will include the child becoming violent, aggressive, uncaring and so on . . .
You will be aware of the high numbers of youth now engaging in drug taking and excessive alcohol use alongside increasing promiscuity. We just need to consider the actions of adults after using these intoxicants to realise that the effect will be potentially worse with children.My parents both had to work out of necessity. An aunt took us to school and collected us, giving us tea while we waited to be collected by our parents. As soon as I was old enough, I took my siblings to school, collected them, and I made tea and kept them occupied until our parents came home. We weren’t unusual by any means, most families in our area lived this way as did our parents before us, well before the phrase “latch-key kids” was invented.
There was no breakdown in family ties and relationships, everyone pulled together and just got on with it. None of us became violent, aggressive, uncaring and so on, none of us turned to drugs and alcohol, and none of us had the time to be promiscuous!
The issue isn’t about both parents working, it’s about the relationship those parents have with their children; about setting boundaries; about instilling sound moral and ethical values in our children. The right to discipline children has not been removed from parents, discipline can still be applied without resorting to violence.
Incidentally, re the figures on taser use, every time a taser is drawn a report must be filed. Often just the drawing and arming of a taser is a sufficient deterrent, it isn’t actually used, but a report still has to be made. According to the figures, 3 children were electrocuted between July 2007 and December 2009. I can’t find any figures for the number of children who suffered abuse under the guise of “discipline” in the past, but I’d guess a lot of us can name more than 3 children in our past who received regular beatings from their parents for the most minor of reasons…and I’m not just talking about a slap on the wrist. It’s those children that the law was changed to protect.
And on a final note…it’s easy to assume that there are lot of kids out there abusing alcohol and drugs, sleeping around, having a complete disregard for others, indeed this is how the media seems to want to portray children these days. However in my experience the vast majority of kids are polite, sensible young people with strong moral and ethical boundaries. The thugs are the minority, but they seem to get far more attention than they deserve, far more wringing of hands, and not enough action to put it right as everyone tries to absolve themselves of responsibility and find someone else to blame and no-one steps up to take responsibility and change things. Then we bleat when the police have to step in and clear up the mess that shouldn’t be there in the first place.
How very fortunate for you jen
My how times change, have you realised the amount of depravity children are now subject to through recent technologies? And of course, having one of the highest statistics regarding teen pregnancy is just a non-sense isn’t it?
What you say will be true to a degree with a certain percentage. In the past twenty or so years many changes have occurred, take the reduction in social housing. To guarantee a home now means to become enslaved to a money lender, this will mean paying the fees come what may or lose the property; this in itself will create stress and possibly strain on family relations. Unlike twenty-thirty years ago when social housing was both more adequate and available the “norm” now is to buy a property.
Whatever your circumstances were in your childhood can in no way possible relate to all children.However in my experience the vast majority of kids are polite, sensible young people with strong moral and ethical boundaries.
With that then, we can assume that if one hasn’t experienced it, it doesn’t occur?
Of course not, this is a non-sense, children today are subject to far more in terms of social
interaction, they are also increasingly made aware of depravity and debauchery in real time, to suggest this will not have an adverse effect on the child and consequently “society” is also a non-sense and can only be an assumption. There was a time when the mother would stay at home and look after the children, and despite the wailing of the feminist I will hear now, this is what I believe is a missing component in the lives of children today. The simple fact that time with your children is given up for the sake of earning money say’s it all doesn’t it ?Regardless of how many children have been “electrocuted” means very little, it is the use of these weapons in such matters that is a concern to me. The age of the children abused in this way will dictate that they do not have a fully developed mind and when under the influence of toxic agents will lead them to all forms of behaviour. The police are there to keep law and order, not dispense penalties, end of !
@gazlan wrote:
How very fortunate for you jen
Please don’t patronise me. Which bit was fortunate? Having parents who both had to work just to provide the bare necessities and being looked after by an aunt, then having to look after my siblings myself?
I notice that whenever anyone shares anything of their own life you belittle, demean or patronise. So what was your childhood like Gaz?
@gazlan wrote:
My how times change, have you realised the amount of depravity children are now subject to through recent technologies? And of course, having one of the highest statistics regarding teen pregnancy is just a non-sense isn’t it?
Yes I have realised, in case you hadn’t noticed that is what started this thread, protection of children against predators on Facebook and similar. As for teen pregnancy, it’s nothing new, the only difference now is that instead of the family of the mother taking the baby under their wing, the mother is given a home. No lack of social housing when it comes to young unmarried mothers :wink:
@gazlan wrote:
What you say will be true to a degree with a certain percentage. In the past twenty or so years many changes have occurred, take the reduction in social housing. To guarantee a home now means to become enslaved to a money lender, this will mean paying the fees come what may or lose the property; this in itself will create stress and possibly strain on family relations. Unlike twenty-thirty years ago when social housing was both more adequate and available the “norm” now is to buy a property.
Whatever your circumstances were in your childhood can in no way possible relate to all children.?Yes it puts strain on families, but even with social housing you had to pay the rent or face eviction. We didn’t have housing benefit, we had hiding from the rent man or borrowing off friends and family. You may pay a building society rather than the council but the stresses and strains are nothing new.
@gazlan wrote:
However in my experience the vast majority of kids are polite, sensible young people with strong moral and ethical boundaries.
With that then, we can assume that if one hasn’t experienced it, it doesn’t occur?
Where did I say I hadn’t experienced it? Why not quote the rest of that paragraph? you know, the bit that said that the thugs were in the minority? No of course not, that doesn’t suit your agenda.
@gazlan wrote:
Of course not, this is a non-sense, children today are subject to far more in terms of social interaction, they are also increasingly made aware of depravity and debauchery in real time, to suggest this will not have an adverse effect on the child and consequently “society” is also a non-sense and can only be an assumption. There was a time when the mother would stay at home and look after the children, and despite the wailing of the feminist I will hear now, this is what I believe is a missing component in the lives of children today. The simple fact that time with your children is given up for the sake of earning money say’s it all doesn’t it ?
A time when the mother would stay at home? When did this Utopia exist for the working classes? My mother worked out of necessity, so did her mother. I can only think of 3 people I knew whose mothers didn’t work, and they were the posh kids in the private housing. It wasn’t because of feminism or a desire for luxuries, it was for the necessities of keeping a (social housing) roof over our heads, food on the table and clothes on our backs. Mothers working is nothing new, it goes back for generations, so to hold it up now as a reason for the decline of society and our children is a nonsense. I repeat:
@jen_jen wrote:The issue isn’t about both parents working, it’s about the relationship those parents have with their children; about setting boundaries; about instilling sound moral and ethical values in our children. The right to discipline children has not been removed from parents, discipline can still be applied without resorting to violence.
@gazlan wrote:
Regardless of how many children have been “electrocuted” means very little, it is the use of these weapons in such matters that is a concern to me. The age of the children abused in this way will dictate that they do not have a fully developed mind and when under the influence of toxic agents will lead them to all forms of behaviour. The police are there to keep law and order, not dispense penalties, end of !
Then best someone takes some responsibility for keeping these poor undeveloped minds under the influence of toxic agents that are being led into all forms of behaviour (who are the minority, not the majority) off the streets then. Now who will step up to taking that responsibility I wonder. :-k
* puts soapbox away for the moment *
Fortunate in the sense that not all children were lucky to have “someone” close to look after their welfare!
I notice that whenever anyone shares anything of their own life you belittle, demean or patronise. So what was your childhood like Gaz?
RUBBISH !
As for teen pregnancy, it’s nothing new, the only difference now is that instead of the family of the mother taking the baby under their wing, the mother is given a home. No lack of social housing when it comes to young unmarried mothers
I was referring to the numbers not it’s date of origin. I think you will find a shortage of social housing for all peoples, hence the increasing state of homelessness and waiting times. Yes, single parents will be given priority simply because of the needs of the child.
Yes it puts strain on families, but even with social housing you had to pay the rent or face eviction. We didn’t have housing benefit, we had hiding from the rent man or borrowing off friends and family. You may pay a building society rather than the council but the stresses and strains are nothing new.
Hiding from the rent man?As far as I am aware assistance with rent costs was established as early as the thirties.
I don’t recall anyone “hiding from the rent man” and I am 45. Perhaps early 1900’s.
The point being that people are far more likely to get themselves into huge debt to secure a roof over their head, due to the lack of public housing now. It’s my belief that the cost of buying property in this country has expanded no end in the past twenty years or so, far beyond the reach of “ordinary” people. This of course led to the recent troubles with the economy, banks and lenders falsifying their books to allow people on minimum incomes to purchase properties way above what they could afford. The people in need of a home are not likely to turn the offer down.Where did I say I hadn’t experienced it? Why not quote the rest of that paragraph? you know, the bit that said that the thugs were in the minority? No of course not, that doesn’t suit your agenda
Agenda? And what would that be? :? :roll:
Yes, I think it’s safe to say we all can recognise that different humans will have different genes, traits, habits, circumstances etc, etc, etc . . . :roll:A time when the mother would stay at home? When did this Utopia exist for the working classes? My mother worked out of necessity, so did her mother. I can only think of 3 people I knew whose mothers didn’t work, and they were the posh kids in the private housing. It wasn’t because of feminism or a desire for luxuries, it was for the necessities of keeping a (social housing) roof over our heads, food on the table and clothes on our backs. Mothers working is nothing new, it goes back for generations, so to hold it up now as a reason for the decline of society and our children is a nonsense. I repeat:
Again you assume that because of things you went through this can be taken as a measure for all. . . Rubbish!
I did not say that, I said it is my belief that it is a component missing from children’s lives. The feminist remark was made as tongue in cheek.Then best someone takes some responsibility for keeping these poor undeveloped minds under the influence of toxic agents that are being led into all forms of behaviour (who are the minority, not the majority) off the streets then. Now who will step up to taking that responsibility I wonder.
Couldn’t agree more, I suppose if they are under threat of electrocution and potential death as a result, that might just work. Does keeping them off the streets equate to forcing them off the streets with the use of electric shock treatment?
PS~ Perhaps parents can be supplied with taser guns to psychologically sway the children into less naughtiness and force a curfew.@cherriepie wrote:
@ Panda..
The discipline of children has been removed from their parents/Guardians hands and given to law enforcement.
They are using tasers to “discipline” these children…and although some children’s upbringing and their sense of right and wrong is obscured I hardly feel that a Milgram type discipline is appropriate for children!
This method started back in World War 2 and during the Nazi period ..(and still is used) Achieving complete obedience to immoral orders… and we are using them on the children of today!?
The child is left with a feeling of helplessness… Nothing more.
We.. the adults of the world.. including law enforcement… including the child’s parents should be using effective measures to assist them in achieving a healthy mindset.
Instead of using tasers.. and corrupting the child further…. use other methods… Use the power of Psychology… ( although irrelevant in this topic.. I feel that ADD children would benefit from this also) … we just are not willing to put in the time or effort for these children, we rather torture them… Label them as an A.D.D patient and give them drugs.
Sad really… I would rather get a smack from mum then get tasered that’s for sure. :roll:edit: typo :P
You missed my post then when I said:
If tasering is what it takes then so be it although I think a clip round the ear would do no harm.
Corporal punishment in schools should be reinstated for extreme and constant bad behaviour but then you get the whingeing do gooding parents saying it’s their responsibility to discipline their kids. Shame a lot of them don’t.
Perhaps Gaz should explain what these 13 – 17 year olds were actually doing in order to get tasered. After all, there are two sides to every story.
@ Gaz:
I wish I could sit in an armchair all day long ranting about this and ranting about that and doing the odd Google search to find an article to back up my views and only having the odd break to add a bit of animation to a few pics.
I do have my opinions like most people on here but what differentiates mine from yours Gaz is actual life experience. I only comment on things I have experienced first hand.
You on the other hand are forever quoting this and quoting that – nothing ever seems to be from your actual life experiences.
Now this country isn’t perfect by a long shot, but then it isn’t bad either by a long shot – there are better countries in which to live and worse countries in which to live.
Now as I will say to anyone who constantly cusses this country and – and that applies to whether they were born here or not – if you don’t like it, bugger off somewhere else and live.
I can assure you, wherever you go will be no Utopia and having lived abroad, I can assure you the grass is not always greener.
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