Prisoners Human Rights

@slayer wrote:

@genie_in_a_butthole wrote:

@slayer wrote:

@genie_in_a_butthole wrote:

However you feel though with regards to prisoners rights, any given society is best judged by its treatment of its worst members. As Dostoyevsky said “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons”.

I take it that by “entering prisons”, you can see the low life scum that infest them and truly see what society we live in that breeds the pestilence that rape and murder 2 year old girls. Unfortuante it is that you can see them in a prison as hanging from a rope would be a much better place for them

{quote=”genie_in_a_butthole”] I never said i “enter(ing) prisons”, as should be very clear from both the quotation marks before and after that sentence and the fact i say, “As Dostoyevsky said” before the quote.
If you are saying that by simply being in prison that makes a person “low life scum”, lets take a brief look at some people who have spent time in prison around the world over the years.

Nelson Mandela,
Alexander Solzhenitsyn,
Fyodor Dostoyevsky,
Jean Genet,
Oscar Wilde,
George Jackson,
Brendan Behan,
Francois Marie Arouet (Voltaire) etc etc etc

I could continue but i will save you time having to google the names, these few names alone hardly constitute “low life scum”.

You have taken a direct Dostoyesky quote to support your argument which preceeds the quote ergo you support and adhere to the inference in the quote- I didnt say “you said”- I referred directly to your supporting quote. Listing names of renowned people through the ages who have been incarcerated to support the idea that prison does not have “low life scum” is as ludicrous as me listing some of the worst perpetrators of criminal activity to support that it does.

Simple statement- entering a prison would allow you to see low life scum face to face- it would allow you to see a helluva lot more but it doesnt detract from the fact that leeches on the face of humanity exist there.

@genie_in_a_butthole wrote:

Now lets accept the reality that laws change, what is accepted today was once imprisonable. People sit in prison for a multitude of offences ranging from rape and murder to non-payment of fines and tax evasion. These inmates, although seperated by the length of sentence and nature of the crime are all living in the same prison system under the same rules. Should an 80 year old man who refused to pay his poll tax have all his dignity removed and be treated as “low life scum”? I suggest not.

Where have i said ALL prisoners should be treated the same- i merely referred to the fact that certain crimes would be better served by the guilty hanging from a gibbet (perhaops having first had molten metal poured down their throat, though that may be a tad too extreme :D )

@genie_in_a_butthole wrote:

By using the of crime of “rape and murder 2 year old girls” (excuse the grammar, but this was quoted directly from you), you have used the vilest of crimes in an attempt to justify your point that ALL prisoners should be immediately condemned as “low life scum”, this shows a complete ignorance of the reality of the situation and the British legal system. The thread was “prisoners human rights”, encompassing both the severe crimes and petty crimes that people currently sit inside a cell for. Should a person who rapes and murders a 2 year old girl be executed or as you put it “hang from a rope” is a different question and not remotely relevent to this thread and nor is the strictness and leniency of any given sentence for any given crime. All that is relevent is the rights of those that are imprisoned.

It is pertinently relevant- why shoudl human rights be extended to those wish to impose their foulest abuses of others basic human right to live. And please please do not state anything about “stooping to their level” etc. Certain crimes (child murder and rape for a starter) go beyond evil and part of the punishment should be a removal of all but the basic human right of food and water

To get back to the question originally imposed we must also apply common sense, if a person is treated harshly and demeaned for a prolonged period by a system and is then released back into a society that in their mind caused this treatment, resentment and bitterness are created thus creating the likelihood of a more serious crime being commited upon release and a circle of release – conviction – prison is perpetuated doing nothing for the inmate or society unless that individual breaks it (like John McVicar, Stanley Tookie Williams etc). Now i am not for one moment suggesting that inmates should be afforded a life of luxury whilst incarcerated, but i am saying basic human rights should apply and an inmate should be afforded the protection from other inmates and officers that society is afforded by the very nature of the prison system.

[/quote]

Lets first look at your original posting –

“I take it that by “entering prisons”, you can see the low life scum that infest them and truly see what society we live in that breeds the pestilence that rape and murder 2 year old girls.
Unfortuante it is that you can see them in a prison as hanging from a rope would be a much better place for them”

By following the quoted phrase “entering prisons” with the word “you” meaning me, you are saying i must have seen the “low life scum”. I corrected this be saying i have never entered prisons and seen the “low life scum” (according to you) that inhabit them as a result of entering said prison.

At what point in this post have you differentiated between offenders crimes. I would concur that some people in prison have commited vile crimes and could be considered “low-life scum”, i never stated otherwise, but by naming these people i have demonstrated that simply by being imprisoned does not immediately cause you to be considered “low-life scum” as your original post implies.

Your overly embellished phrasing of “leeches on the face of humanity exist there” is very colorful and evocative, but does nothing to detract from the point i made, which i shall reitterate and clarify. Just by being imprisoned, a person cannot automatically be deemed to be “low life scum” although, dependent upon the crime leading to incarceration, society as a large may deem you to be so. The important wording in that sentence is “dependent upon the crime”, something with which you have made no distinction towards.

Look again at your original posting, by the use of words such as “infest” you make little or no distinction between inmates. I responded that your original post makes no such distinction and simply responded that a distinction needs to be made. The topic of this thread and initial post also makes no such distinction and as such encompasses all prisoners. If you agree a distinction needs to be made, which you have done when you say “certain crimes would be better served by the guilty hanging from a gibbet”, then you are saying different crimes merit different treatment. As this is not the case in the British prison system, as my original post clearly states, then human rights should relate to at least some inmates, this thread never makes that distinction and as such is relevent to every and all offenders, therefore negating your original posts implications.

The subject of capital punishment and/or alternative methods of punishment is not relevent to this thread simply because this thread is entitled “Prisoners Human Rights” and nothing relating to sentencing.

I am glad by this next paragraph that you are making a distinction between inmates crimes and were the thread to have been entitled “Should human rights be afforded to those inmates who have committed child murder and rape”, then we would be having a different discussion, it wasn’t called that and still isn’t.

“It is pertinently relevant- why shoudl human rights be extended to those wish to impose their foulest abuses of others basic human right to live. And please please do not state anything about “stooping to their level” etc. Certain crimes (child murder and rape for a starter) go beyond evil and part of the punishment should be a removal of all but the basic human right of food and water”

@genie_in_a_butthole wrote:

@smiley wrote:

The only right prisoners have is the right to be hanged.

They also have the right to stick pictures onto their cell walls with toothpaste or with semen.

What a waste of semen. All those hairy ar*ses ready & waiting in the shower, cumless, because of some selfish person decided to use it to stick pictures up instead. [-(

They deserve to be in prison! =;

@emmalush wrote:

@genie_in_a_butthole wrote:

Nelson Mandela,
these few names alone hardly constitute “low life scum”.

The thing to remember when you’re reading genie’s posts is, that he/she/it is a far left extremist, quite possibly a marxist, especially to defend nelson mandela, who gained his wealth on the back of the people who got him into power.

Nelson Mandela standing at a funeral singing kill the white man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOXqFQw2hc

By the way Emma, having watched that link, Mandela actually sings the words Ama-Bhulu, Bhulu on its own translates as whites as indicated by the subtitles, however, ama-bhulu, specifically translates as “Boers” meaning people with a certain political point of view, the equivalent of singing “death to slaveholders” or “death to inmates” or “death to communists”. I hope i have clarified that matter for you.

I dont think its a humans “right” to have a toilet, playstation, television or sky movies in their cell

Their human “rights” as far as I’m concerned include the right to not be beaten or otherwise abused, the right to have enough sustanence so they dont starve or dehydrate, the right to not be kept in cold, damp or otherwise unhealthy conditions, the right to be treated when ill, the right to have disabilities accomodated and the right to have clothes to wear and thats pretty much it

Anything else I consider a luxury and NOT a “right” and if they wanted to maintain the ability to have anything more luxurious then they shouldnt have committed the crimes they committed as simple as that

Making prisons into holiday camps isnt exactly making them a deterrant and it also undermines the level of penance and punishment incarceration presents

Personally I would run prisons on a shift system and ban personal possessions, splitting the day roughly into 10 hours work, 10 hours sleep, 4 hours recreation that way we could fit twice as many people into the existing prisons as well as making them work whilst there even if thats pointless physical labour like rock breaking to make prisons start to feel like a punishment again rather than a comfy break from the outside world as many now regard them to be

@forumhostpb wrote:

It is somewhat ironic that the revered and saintly Nelson Mandela was imprisoned for advocating the indiscriminate slaughter of white folks – a view that he steadfastly refused to change during many many years of incarceration.

I therefore find it strange that he is feted worldwide for his peaceable views and is hailed as a symbol of moderation.

Some people have very short (or convenient) memories don’t they?

The price of Bronze is very high on the scrap market, I trust the rightous will therefore do what needs to be done, Fancy bunging him next to Churchill fgs………..Some fool in the EU will want Hitler placed their next for his outstanding services during WWII

(It just get’s better)

Stick Hindley & Brady there as well I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!……….Make them with more copper in them and they will turn green quicker

(Rant over)