-
Posts
-
Read this fantastic article this morning…yes its the DM…I havent looked to see if it is anywhere else. Its written by a Muslim genteleman, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4003946/I-despair-British-Muslims-choose-live-virtual-apartheid-writes-Dr-Taj-Hargey.html
I’m always suspicious about articles like these, especially when the author is a Muslim.
On the face of it they’re words that people want to hear, but mixed in with it is a discrete framing of there being a nice tolerant Islam that everyone should be championing, against a bad and intolerant one that needs ousting. This is done to get people on-side and to fundamentally accept the existence of Islam in society via being duped into believing that it’s benign – which of course it isn’t. He’s an imam too so he knows what he’s doing. I have no doubt that he wants society to fall to Islam just as much as any “Islamists” or “misinformed extremists” that he publicly denounces.
… ^ according to Google that author isn’t actually an imam and he rejects the entire Sunnah as well, so not really Muslim either. So might not be any foul play there afterall, but it is a piece that could easily as gone for being propaganda by any typical Sunni Muslim mouthpiece, they really are that sly.
… ^ according to Google that author isn’t actually an imam and he rejects the entire Sunnah as well, so not really Muslim either. So might not be any foul play there afterall, but it is a piece that could easily as gone for being propaganda by any typical Sunni Muslim mouthpiece, they really are that sly.
When I first started reading the article I wondered why an Indian was involved so publically in Muslim matters….then continued to read and saw he was an iman etc…(I thought his name was Indian)
on reading your response BB I’ve searched the Dr and Wiki says he is a Muslim imam
just to touch on your earlier response……seems a case when Muslims genuinely want to change things for the better some will think it’s sly and underhand….damned if they do damned if they don’t
2 members liked this post.
I’m always suspicious about articles like these, especially when the author is a Muslim. On the face of it they’re words that people want to hear, but mixed in with it is a discrete framing of there being a nice tolerant Islam that everyone should be championing, against a bad and intolerant one that needs ousting. This is done to get people on-side and to fundamentally accept the existence of Islam in society via being duped into believing that it’s benign – which of course it isn’t. He’s an imam too so he knows what he’s doing. I have no doubt that he wants society to fall to Islam just as much as any “Islamists” or “misinformed extremists” that he publicly denounces.
Why is it that you think that no muslim can be accepted into our society. I have several friends who are muslim, I can promise you that they pose no threat (although none of them live in Britain).
When I first started reading the article I wondered why an Indian was involved so publically in Muslim matters….then continued to read and saw he was an iman etc…(I thought his name was Indian)
There are quite a lot of muslims in India, just check my previous post showing muslim populations by size.
When I first started reading the article I wondered why an Indian was involved so publically in Muslim matters….then continued to read and saw he was an iman etc…(I thought his name was Indian)
There are quite a lot of muslims in India, just check my previous post showing muslim populations by size.
That doesn’t mean their names morph into Indian names! But thank you for pointing that out and the statistics…….
When I first started reading the article I wondered why an Indian was involved so publically in Muslim matters….then continued to read and saw he was an iman etc…(I thought his name was Indian) on reading your response BB I’ve searched the Dr and Wiki says he is a Muslim imam
I don’t see any Wiki on him, but if he is an imam then it’ll only be in the sense of it being in name only (or self-proclaimed); he will have zero credibility or authority in the mainstream Sunni Muslim world. Quotes from him that I’ve quickly glanced at suggests he doesn’t respect the Sunnah, which practically every Sunni Muslim will tell you is an absolutely integral part of Islam and of being a Muslim (Sunni is based on the word Sunnah itself). Rather than an Imam, and rather than even a Muslim, he will overwhelmingly be branded as what Muslims refer to as a Munafiqun [a hypocrite/non-believer] for professing to be an imam/Muslim with extremely non-Islamic views.
So what I first automatically assumed to be deviousness from a learned and respected imam, is probably actually just him being an ill-informed potato.
As an example, regarding the marriage of Muslim women to non-Muslim men (which is categorically forbidden in Islam) he writes: “There is no verse in the Holy Quran that bans Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim men,” Imam Hargey told Al Jazeera. “Almighty God would have revealed explicit directives if Muslim women were not allowed to marry outside the faith. As Muslim men are entitled to marry women from the People of the Book who are not Muslim [Surah al-Maidah 5:5], the same right must be afforded to Muslim women as Islam is a gender-equal religion.”
And here now is the Qur’an:
Qur’an: 2:221 And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember
just to touch on your earlier response……seems a case when Muslims genuinely want to change things for the better some will think it’s sly and underhand….damned if they do damned if they don’t
And for good reason: you simply can’t trust them.
I get how it might seem unfair to suspect and criticise a Muslim who comes out proclaiming to want to change things for the better – perhaps even paranoid, but the suspicion and criticism is absolutely warranted because as said earlier:- 1) Islamic text makes a fundamental class distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims.
- 2) Islamic text orders jihad for Muslims to subjugate non-Muslims and take over all non-Islamic societies.
- 3) Islamic text permits and encourages all forms of deception towards non-Muslims to both protect Islam from any harm that might come from them, and to expand it onto them.
Learned Muslims everywhere will be very conscious of how non-Muslims view Islam and will be seeking to drive a false distinction between Islam/Islamism as a protective measure. They will try to mislead people into believing that mainstream Islam is like any other religion, that they are on your side in espousing British/Western values, and that the problem is really just with a minority of extremists who “misinterpret” Islam – that we supposedly all collectively have to come together to defeat. It’s akin to them hugging and reassuring you on one hand, while simultaneously smothering you to death on the other. They are two-faced, and proudly so.
Yes not all Muslims will intentionally be trying to mislead (due to different levels of knowledge and fervour), but because the justifications to do so are so prevalent throughout the entirety of Islam’s texts, then it would be wise to automatically assume that they all are by default – particularly regarding Muslims in prominent positions, and particularly regarding Muslims who take it upon themselves to stand in the media spotlight as Islamic spokespersons (such as the apparent “imam” guy).
Why is it that you think that no muslim can be accepted into our society. I have several friends who are muslim, I can promise you that they pose no threat (although none of them live in Britain).
For purely strategic reasons. Accepting Muslims in society normalises the existence of Islam, and normalising the existence of Islam–viewing it as just an ordinary part of society–will lead to it ultimately dominating the Western world.
I completely accept that there absolutely are good people who identify as Muslims, but only on the basis that they don’t know enough about their religion, or don’t bother following it properly. While I agree that these nominal Muslims don’t pose a threat as such in the classical sense, I would argue, however, that they do pose a threat indirectly by acting as enablers of Islam, and as enablers of Muslims who are knowledgable about it and do take it seriously. They act to non-intentionally mislead the non-Muslim populace into thinking that the Islam that they identify with (but don’t fully know about or properly adhere to), is just as benign as they are as individual nominal Muslims – a view that is both wrong and dangerous for a non-Muslim populace to come to believe. A prime example of this is people falling in love with Nadiya Hussain from the Great British Bake Off and then warming to her Islamic faith as a result, because she’s apparently “nice and didn’t turn into a terrorist, so it can’t be that bad”. There too is also the case that when the chips are down, nominal Muslims will be likely to choose to side with other Muslims around them, rather than with non-Muslims who take issue with their religion.
Essentially if you posit that standard mainstream Islam prescribes a huge amount of hatred and aggression towards all non-Muslims and all non-Islamic societies and values; that a very large percentage of Muslims will always be adhering properly to their faith; and that there’s absolutely no chance of reform happening, then you’re left with two unfortunately bleak options of either: tolerating it while knowing that it will eventually prevail, or resisting it and acting to completely stamp it out in it’s entirety. It really is as simplistic choice as that.
You can’t accept and tolerate Islam on one hand, but then get mad at the people who follow it properly on the other (and at all the inevitable social ills that result). This essentially is where Western governments stand right now; it’s a completely a self-defeating position to take and Islam is gaining traction because of it. If Western values are to be upheld into the foreseeable future, then what needs to happen is that society needs to completely reject Islam in it’s entirety. Any further Islamic buildings and institutions need to be prohibited from being built, and those who currently identify as adherents of it need to be challenged and pressured into stepping away from it–including nominal Muslims–with the ultimate goals-in-mind being to firstly contain its growth and expansion, and to then shrink its overall influence while simultaneously decreasing the amount of adherents to it.
It’s either Islam or the West, they can’t coexist – one has to completely annihilate the other, one way or another. A clash of civilisations is essentially unfolding, and everyone has to choose their side.
For purely strategic reasons. Accepting Muslims in society normalises the existence of Islam, and normalising the existence of Islam–viewing it as just an ordinary part of society–will lead to it ultimately dominating the Western world.
What do you propose to do with muslims who are British (or your native country’s) citizens?
For purely strategic reasons. Accepting Muslims in society normalises the existence of Islam, and normalising the existence of Islam–viewing it as just an ordinary part of society–will lead to it ultimately dominating the Western world.
What do you propose to do with muslims who are British (or your native country’s) citizens?
Muslims following their faith properly would laugh at the thought of identifying themselves as British, but that aside: apply all forms of discriminatory pressure onto them with the aim of getting them to abandon Islam, especially through challenging/confronting them on theological grounds and highlighting all the bad/contradictory aspects of Islam to them. Ideally it shouldn’t just be what I do, but what every non-Muslim does too – including the government on a mass scale. No Muslim should be able to feel proud about being a Muslim, of adhering to an ideological death cult that’s worse than Nazism.
Those though who do remain devoted and who refuse to walk away from it, well…
Deportation is one option.
Get involved in this discussion! Log in or register now to have your say!