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One of my biggest reasons for voting Brexit actually was to put in motion the ability for us (and others) to implement policies to combat the spread and growth of Islam in whichever way we deem fit, and not be constrained by politically correct international powers. 2016 was a massive step in the right direction then for me, and I’m a lot more optimistic of change happening now than I was a few months ago.
The Brexit vote, and Trump’s election, must have sparked a lot of right-wing fantasies, BB. What was once regarded as so horrendous that it was out of the question has suddenly loomed into the realm of frightening possibility. Let’s see how it turns out.
ISIS are going to send (and recruit) more people to Europe on terror attacks. They’ll slip through however tight a net is cast until they achieve their end of winning all Muslims to their view (and yours) that Islam and non-Islam are at a deadly war with each other.
At some point, despite excellent policing in the UK., something pretty nasty is likely to happen, and there is the danger of some sort of backlash, whipped up by fear-mongering.
If your fantasy does come true, BB, could you give an indication of how many Muslims in Britain will be deported??? Another way of asking you how many Muslims are in the UK. This will include white Muslims, yes, of which there are a number?
Just asking.
So? Islam prescribes for Muslims to put their ‘religion’ above and beyond national identity. Those that have roots here and want to carry on living here should be allowed to do so, but only on condition that they fully reject their ‘religion’.
I had mentioned this was a problem in the Berlin thread, however I don’t believe a complete rejection of their religion is needed.
If no countries are willing to accept them, then mass airdrop them into a desert if needs be, just as long as they’re anywhere other than here and aren’t able to pose a threat to everyone.
This isn’t a realistic solution, no party would ever get elected with this policy. And there would be an international effort to prevent this from happening, possibly even war.
All that’s needed is for Western societies to imitate those early Pagan Meccans in rejecting Islam, and of being less accepting of those who openly adhere to Islam.
This is one thing that I agree with scep on, universal suppression of Islam will just create tensions and conflict with muslim populations in Britain. This would only be a good option if there weren’t any muslims here to resist, as is the case with Japan’s laws on practicing islam.
Agreed that as things currently stand you can’t, but things will just have to drastically change, is really my only response to that. If it doesn’t then the West will become increasingly Islamised until it reaches the point of no return.
Which is why I want to ban immigration and refugees from Islamic countries, something else I mentioned in the Berlin thread. It will only make the problem worse if we keep letting more of them in. But as I said earlier, I don’t think deportation of British citizens is an acceptable solution.
The International community will also have to be ignored
I have no problems with ignoring the UN, I would want to leave it if we didn’t have a permanent seat on the security council. Ignoring the EU is more difficult while the EJC can override our domestic laws (Their blocking of the Snooper’s Charter is an example, although I agree with their ruling in this case).
The Brexit vote, and Trump’s election, must have sparked a lot of right-wing fantasies, BB.
Its a reaction to the left-wing fantasies of an open-bordered multicultural utopia, where everyone gets along. At least in regards to immigration issues, I voted for Brexit because of trade.
ISIS are going to send (and recruit) more people to Europe on terror attacks.
Which is why we shouldn’t allow ISIS to exist, it isn’t even recognised as an official state and has no legitimacy.
They’ll slip through however tight a net is cast until they achieve their end of winning all Muslims to their view (and yours) that Islam and non-Islam are at a deadly war with each other.
Islam is at war with the west, it always has been, what do you think the reconquista and the crusades were about? This is different than muslims being at war with the west however, which I think is something both you and BB are missing.
Islam is at war with the west, it always has been, what do you think the reconquista and the crusades were about? This is different than muslims being at war with the west however, which I think is something both you and BB are missing.
Edit* am responding to Draculina, not Skeptical BTW. Quote went wrong.
What does this statement actually mean? Where is a single shred of verifiable evidence to support it. Quoting some random war from some random year, thousands or hundreds of years ago, is not evidence. There are 1.6 billion Muslims who follow the Islamic faith on this planet and 99.99% of them live peaceful law abiding lives and to suggest otherwise is just parroting right wing tabloid driven witchuntery. It is an utter disgrace that in a largely tolerant UK, that a tiny % of violent fundamentalists, are now being used to whip up this kind of bigoted hatred and division.
What does this statement actually mean? Where is a single shred of verifiable evidence to support it. Quoting some random war from some random year, thousands or hundreds of years ago, is not evidence. There are 1.6 billion Muslims who follow the Islamic faith on this planet and 99.99% of them live peaceful law abiding lives and to suggest otherwise is just parroting right wing tabloid driven witchuntery. It is an utter disgrace that in a largely tolerant UK, that a tiny % of violent fundamentalists, are now being used to whip up this kind of bigoted hatred and division.
Are you saying that the reconquista didn’t happen?
Btw, the Iberian Peninsula was an islamic caliphate for several hundred years. It’s not just some random war, it’s a major part of European history. Even ignoring other parts of Europe occupied by islamic empires throught the last 1000 years.
I specifically said that I was talking about Islam, not muslims. I’m not sure why it’s so hard for people to make this distinction.
Btw, the Iberian Peninsula was an islamic caliphate for several hundred years.
Wikipedia has a fairly breakdown of the islamification of Iberia.
To me, it seems a bit like you are saying that WW2 isn’t a good example of why the ideology of Nazism is harmful to the west.
I want to ban immigration and refugees from Islamic countries, something else I mentioned in the Berlin thread. It will only make the problem worse if we keep letting more of them in. But as I said earlier, I don’t think deportation of British citizens is an acceptable solution.
ISIS are going to send (and recruit) more people to Europe on terror attacks.
Which is why we shouldn’t allow ISIS to exist, it isn’t even recognised as an official state and has no legitimacy.
Everybody (almost – with the exception of Owen Jones) recognises this. ISIS is an organisation which practises mass terror and fear. They represent an unusually extreme version of Islam – even al-Quaeda think they’re too extreme. A big question is why they attract so many young people in the West, even in the UK.
They’ll slip through however tight a net is cast until they achieve their end of winning all Muslims to their view (and yours) that Islam and non-Islam are at a deadly war with each other.
Islam is at war with the west, it always has been, what do you think the reconquista and the crusades were about? This is different than muslims being at war with the west however, which I think is something both you and BB are missing.
The distinction between Islam and Muslims is very odd, though. Muslims accept Islam – which means Submission (to the Will of God). Christians accept submission (to a different God) – Luther called it Christian Liberty.
Islam has never declared war on the West. It as called for the conversion of non-Muslims, just as Christians in a very different way call for the conversion of all non-Christians. Both religions have a very violent wing (think of the Inquisition), though they’re justified differently.
You can’t declare a physical war on Islam without declaring it on Muslims. BB in his barbaric mirror-image of ISIS policy is at least consistent here. Banning all immigration from Muslim countries without alienating British Muslims and creating fear in that community is a result of a pretty strange reasoning, a hair-splitting which makes no sense to most people.
btw I’m not going to spend time looking at a war which ended in 1492. I don’t think Muslims (apart form ISIS) want to set up a caliphate in Spain.
BB, how many Muslims are there in the UK – including white ones?
Everybody (almost – with the exception of Owen Jones) recognises this. ISIS is an organisation which practises mass terror and fear. They represent an unusually extreme version of Islam – even al-Quaeda think they’re too extreme. A big question is why they attract so many young people in the West, even in the UK.
It represents a litteral version of Islam, its very similar to how Islam has always been historically. We should be doing more to support the Iraqi government’s (Who we installed) fight against ISIS. But I disagree with you that everyone recognises this, a large minority of the ‘rebels’ in Syria are members of ISIS, but both the US and UK governments are supporting them, and selling them weapons.
Islam has never declared war on the West.
Every major islamic power has declared war on western countries, see my earlier example of the invasion of Iberia, another example would be the Ottoman empire. Today the major islamic powers are Saudi Arabia, who are financing terrorism in western countries, and Pakistan, who are threatening to go to war but haven’t actually done anything yet.
It as called for the conversion of non-Muslims, just as Christians in a very different way call for the conversion of all non-Christians.
Conversion or death, in the case of Islam.
Both religions have a very violent wing (think of the Inquisition), though they’re justified differently.
The Inquisition was a result of Christians being either enslaved or killed in Iberia for hundreds of years, I think its understandable why they went in that direction.
You can’t declare a physical war on Islam without declaring it on Muslims.
You can’t declare physical war on an ideology at all. The only thing you can do is prevent it from spreading, and showing it’s members why the alternative (western liberalism) is better.
Banning all immigration from Muslim countries without alienating British Muslims and creating fear in that community is a result of a pretty strange reasoning, a hair-splitting which makes no sense to most people.
I still don’t understand why you think an immigration ban on a foreign country alienates British citizens.
btw I’m not going to spend time looking at a war which ended in 1492.
Why? It’s a good example of what would happen if ISIS (or any other Wahabi / Salafi muslims) was to spread into the west.
I don’t think Muslims (apart form ISIS) want to set up a caliphate in Spain.
Remember that study I showed you before? The one that reported that ~30% of British muslims (students) wanted to establish a global islamic caliphate… Yeah.
Because of Western imperial savagery in the Middle East, tentacles stretching far and wide, including Saudi Arabia, Mi5 and the CIA, ISIS was created. Donald Trump has been firing off his drunk Tweets again unequivocally supporting Israel and has previously condemned Iran. What we have witnessed to date, when this man becomes President, is just the tip of the Iceburg.
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