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So – understand what and why someone has a different attitude to god and the universe. It’s a more adult approach; it’s also a more interesting approach.
Not really. Rather like the way you dismiss Dawkins, Grayling and the likes of Fry. Horses for courses. You’re entitled to your view, as is everyone else. Religion is black and white, there are no grey areas. Either God exists or he/she doesn’t and thus to date, there is no evidence he/she exists, or existed.
I don’t think religion is black and whit (anymore)…..lots of modern day believers adapt religion to their modern day life…..……personally if your religion is not hurting anyone then continue to take from it whatever it gives you
You have epitomized right there exactly why Islam is different to other religions- other religions have evolved with modern day life, Islam hasn’t and never will
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but when you’re dead, you’re dead. The notion that all living creatures have a soul and paradise awaits with worms, flies, rats and bats fluttering around as relatives peer through the haze saying welcome to heaven is too ridiculous to merit a discussion.
Again, I have to ask, Mr Norfolk. What you’re saying may well be true or maybe not. But how do you know?? You may feel you feel fairly certain, but some Muslims feel just as certain that they’re heading for a harem in paradise. maybe they’re right, too. Who knows? How do you know?
I don’t , I use the balance of probability with the limited information at my disposal. I would suggest my approximation of what happens after death bears a closer resemblance to truth than a book of fiction based on a middle aged paedophile and his 9 year old wife but who knows.
You need to think things through. You write an eminently sensible series of posts pointing to the changes in scientific thinking whihc began about 100 years ago with quantum mechanics, and with relativity theory before that. Those changes destroyed our conception of the universe of strict physical laws of gravity. Our notions of space and time, fixed for centuries as eternal truths by Euclid and Newton, were destroyed overnight as our ideas of space and time were extended into a multi-dimensional realm. In short, as you have pointed out, the whole notion of probability has been turned on its head. We really don’t know. Mystery has replaced strict mechanical laws, and has set scientific experiment and theory on a new course. During the last century, that mystery has deepened. Now apply it to death. We no longer know what death actually is; we don’t even know when it actually occurs. The doctors set the watch when breathing has stopped for a set length of time, and you’re pronounced to have kicked the final bucket. But we remain alive in the brain for a period of time. Nothing is actually certain. We know that when someone is buried their body is dead (unless they’ve had a dirty trick played on them, or the NHS has declined even further in efficiency), just as we know that when you drop a pencil on the table it’s going to fall down, not up. But there’s more to another type of life that that. Mystery surrounds death. Maybe one day we’ll break it. Until that happens, you can assert forcefully what you think will happen but you don’t really know any more than the next person.
I agree with most of this and as your last sentence states ” I don’t know ” which is why I have a view on the balance of probability that was stated. I can however, “assert forcibly ” my view of religions which have been completely discredited by scientific fact.
Just as a baby in the womb has no sense of what existence is like after birth, we have no sense of what happens after death.
I know someone who was a staunch atheist, he clinically died, went to hell, came back and is now one of the staunchest Christians I know. He wrote a book on his experiences, Hells Dominion, A Land Unknown by Bryan Melvin. An interesting read.
I believe death isn’t the end.
A question, or thought for those that dont believe, if I’m wrong and there is nothing what do I lose by believing. If I’m right, what do you lose by not believing?
Just as a baby in the womb has no sense of what existence is like after birth, we have no sense of what happens after death. . I believe death isn’t the end.
These two things are self contradictory.. how can we have no sense after death, but it not being the end. If we have no conscious state after death, it’s the end in every way imaginable unless you regard becoming worm food a state constituting life.
Just as a baby in the womb has no sense of what existence is like after birth, we have no sense of what happens after death. . I believe death isn’t the end.
These two things are self contradictory.. how can we have no sense after death, but it not being the end. If we have no conscious state after death, it’s the end in every way imaginable unless you regard becoming worm food a state constituting life.
I didn’t mean it in that way, I meant more that we have no knowledge, we cannot perceive what happens after death, the same way we cannot comprehend life outside of the womb. Yes, I believe our physical bodies dies but our souls, our spirits, that very thing that makes us who we are transcends death.
NDE’s fascinate me, I appreciate that a lot of them can be explained medically but there are some that defy explanation. At a later stage I’ll find a couple of links where renowned scientists have stated there is some (and I stress some) evidence to support that we have some awareness after death.
It’s an interesting area, there can’t be anything more important than a possible purpose to our finite existence or an extension beyond that but as you say, most “experiences” are attributable to medical reasons rather than proof of any spiritual meaning.
Suggestive of some spiritual meaning though wouldn’t you say? There are a few documented cases where hardcore atheists have had a NDE and every one of them switches position to a belief in an afterlife and contribute it to a creator.
There are striking similarities to them, both the positive and negative experiences. You could arguge that we all pretty much think of a bright white light and feeling of peace (which could be attributed to the neurons in the brain shutting down) but why then do some NDE’s not have those characteristics? Why do some people experience negative scenarios?
I used to be a nurse, I’ve seen a fair amount of people die, all but two had such a look of realisation, of understanding, that it went along way to cementing my belief there is more to come.
I’m go to Barcelona tomorrow, hopefully when I return Sceptical has recovered from the flu to continue on the discussion along with others
Thanks, Norfolk.. You have a very earthy sense of humour and you can also be a bit thuggish when angry. I hope you don’t mind me saying that, because you also have a very serious approach to questions, and i try to react seriously to your arguments.
It takes a while for a flu bug to shift. The worst feeling is one of weakness.
I am trying to keep up with the argument.
Interesting points from Nemesis, too. I hope that she makes more.
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LOL this is well funny……..
why is that, mister q?
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