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If all the accusations against Savile are correct, he’ll be regarded as the worst pedophile in British history, using his positon to roam at will (goes back to 1958!!) and the consequences for institutions like the BBC and NHS will be far-reaching. There are some very important questions to be raised because of this.
There is also a witch hunt atmosphere of an unusual sort surrounding this case. The man’s dead, how much of the allegations are unfounded, how much is being pursued for money (lawyers are preparing class-action suits and asking anybody who smelled his cigar to dredge their memories in the hope of making some money), how serious some of them are (I heard that one woman accused him of touching her on teh shoulder!), how much a fair investiagion is possible given the storm – all these make the case both interesting and disturbing.
The personal nature of the thread is obvious. To describe the topic as emotive is to understate it. But to just try to think of different ways of calling someon disgusting is cheapening the thing. The children I knew involved in a trial regarded all adults as evil, not just the pig who was abusing them but all of us! and with reason when the moral circus began, with horrible emotional consequences for them.
Kenty is absolutely right to point to poli’s role.Poli stands out for her own views – with courage in the atmosphere of this thread – and backed me up in saying the obvious – that there is a tariff which differentiates different types of sexual misconduct. Immediately her integrity and sensitivity to suffering are called into question. She’s not alone in this, but she’s got guts, whether you agree with her or not.
This could be an interesting thread – if everyone is treated with a basic respect. Nobody is supporting abuse of any sort, believe it or not.
@panda12 wrote:
@jen_jen wrote:
So it should be brushed under the carpet like it was throughout his life?
It wasn’t just teenage girls, he liked the young nurses too (allegedly) and several of the nurses at Stoke Mandeville dreaded his visits to the hospital.
And you’re happy to believe all this even though he was never charged let alone convicted of any sex crime?
And it’s ok by you that the accused is dead and cannot defend himself?
I hope you never get to do jury service. :roll:
3rd post on page 1 of this thread.
I could explain why I made the comment about jury service but that would no doubt be seen as compounding the “personal attack”.
@sceptical guy wrote:
This could be an interesting thread – if everyone is treated with a basic respect. Nobody is supporting abuse of any sort, believe it or not.
Thanks for pointing that out. We do seem to forget it sometimes in the heat of the debate.
Jen…
I don’t see how your comment to Poli about jury service has anything to do with Panda saying the same to you…….however if I am being accused of pointing out one persons comment and not the others on jury service then I apologise…..whilst Panda said the exact same thing to you…the debate has evolved and Poli has sustained harsh criticism..
And yes Panda has made a complete U-turn which is unusual for her :wink:
I am not going to encourage you getting it in the neck now by going on about it so I have said what I felt…rightly or wrongly
Yes Poli has sustained harsh criticism but it is my comment alone that is being highlighted. The comment itself is exactly the same as the one made to me by panda but I haven’t highlighted it to say “why didn’t anyone defend me”, I’ve highlighted it to show that if my comment is seen as a personal attack and is the only comment picked out, and if people truly are refraining from joining in this thread because of personal attacks, then the attacks go back to the beginning of the thread.
Maybe the difference is that I didn’t see panda’s comment as being a personal attack…or maybe because panda is known for contentious comments and is therefore excused and I’m not…who knows…who cares.
@sceptical guy wrote:
I think, know, a number of people have withdrawn from this thread because they feel it’s become quite personal.
An interesting thought………however, I haven’t contributed anything more because I have said what I wanted to already! :)
@kent f OBE wrote:
Jen…
I don’t see how your comment to Poli about jury service has anything to do with Panda saying the same to you…….however if I am being accused of pointing out one persons comment and not the others on jury service then I apologise…..whilst Panda said the exact same thing to you…the debate has evolved and Poli has sustained harsh criticism..
And yes Panda has made a complete U-turn which is unusual for her :wink:
I am not going to encourage you getting it in the neck now by going on about it so I have said what I felt…rightly or wrongly
Maybe we should just send comments to you for your approval before we post them.
It would be a shame if this thread ended up purely analysing itself instead of addressing its subject. I realise that Poli has had some criticism, but the personal comments have not been that harsh, that numerous or that one-sided. But that’s just my opinion. She has moved on because she’s said all she’s got to say on the subject. If there are other reasons, then it’s really for her to say.
Back to the subject: It’s important to do what I think Poli was trying to do: to separate the justice-related issues around Jimmy Savile from the entertainment and litigious hyperbole which is being whipped up in the media and to which we are all vulnerable.
Poli and other’s main arguments – about lack of resolution, police time, energy and cost come from one perspective of justice. She also questioned its value to the victims.
I and others have tried to start from the impact on victims – the need to be taken seriously, for catharsis and credibility and to balance the one-sided media portrayal of Savile as a harmless hero.
Both perspectives have weight and neither ‘side’ in this debate has eliminated the other. Rather each ‘side’ has tried to argue why its perspective outweighs the other.
As for boring:
QUICK! LOOK OVER THERE! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
@wordsworth60 wrote:
Poli has had some criticism, but the personal comments have not been that harsh
I don’t think Kenty will agree with you. :roll:
@terry wrote:
@wordsworth60 wrote:
Poli has had some criticism, but the personal comments have not been that harsh
I don’t think Kenty will agree with you. :roll:
That’s Kenty’s prerogative, but back to the thread:
One charity seems to be saying that that child sex abuse affects one in four members of the population. This resonates in my mind with the figure for mental illness.
Even if it’s a huge overestimate, it indicates a huge legacy, the potential for a lot of emotional damage and the likelihood that in any group of people you meet there will be at least one person who is or has been in some way dealing with the issue. There’s bound to be a huge diversity in the reactions, opinions and preferred outcomes of just the victims.
In addition it seems The Wright Stuff on Channel 5 will be discussing whether Savile’s family should apologise to victims – I presume for some of their comments, I can’t see how they can owe any apology for what Savile did.
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