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Regardless of whether we’re talking about race, gender, sexuality, disability etc., it’s not words that are offensive, it’s not the toys that are offensive, it’s the context in which they are used and the intent behind them.
@kent f OBE wrote:
I don’t think the product (the doll) as such is offensive at all, nor do I think the doll lost it’s job because it was black.
Why is everyone skirting round the issue of the name? It’s the name that IS offensive. The name of the product is gollywog. For some reason Panda doesm’t mention this in her opening post. Why would anyone think Jack Golly is offensive and why would anyone think that the physical appearance of that toy is offensive?
The toy is gollywog and it’s not an appropriate name in this day and age…we have moved on (apparantly). It is obvious that the exact doll cannot be re branded as the original name will always stickHi Kenty…lovely to see you here xx
Im so glad you made this post, I agree with you entirely…..
I did think about saying the name Golliwog in my original post but I felt inhibited in doing so (my own inhibitions)… I suppose its so offensive even now we shy away from using it.
Yes, when I was little, the toy I loved was a golliwog and there was no racial slur in the name as far as I was concerned I was just a child…. but as time passed the name became very offensive its one I feel uncomfortable using here even in the context of this thread. I think you are right…. my little golly that I loved became a victim of modern day racism… sad fact.. but true.
@jen_jen wrote:
Regardless of whether we’re talking about race, gender, sexuality, disability etc., it’s not words that are offensive, it’s not the toys that are offensive, it’s the context in which they are used and the intent behind them.
Absolutely jen i agree 100%. i’ve said this before that people should worry less about what words are being used and more about the context they are used in or towards someone.
Don’t ban the word slap the nasty eejit saying em. People can be just as offensive without using such words and as much of a bully, so yep i agree totally.I’m not sure if I’ve shared this story here before or whether it was on another forum so apologies if I’m repeating myself.
I had an older cousin who was an only child and was spoilt rotten. She always had the most exquisite dolls, the kind that you looked at and didn’t play with. One of my favourites was a black doll that had the prettiest face, thick afro-style hair, gold earrings and deep brown eyes…bear in mind that this was at a time when most dolls were white, had straight blonde or brown hair and blue eyes so to my young eyes she was very different and special.
A few years ago her daughter asked if she could borrow one of her dolls as her daughter (my cousin’s granddaughter) had to take in an old toy that her parents or grandparents might have played with. She selected my favourite doll, still as pristine and beautiful as ever. Alas she didn’t get shown to the class…the teacher confiscated it and asked he mother to come to the school to discuss it. She had deemed this beautiful doll as racist because it was black and had afro-style hair. She didn’t know quite what to say when it was pointed out that it was more racist to think that only white dolls were acceptable or that racially correct depiction in the afro hair was in some way offensive.
Whilst I abhor racism and all forms of prejudice, it does seem that sometimes we bend over so far to not cause offence to one group that it is more offensive in its own way as we almost seem to be denying their existence or, in avoiding offending one group ending up offending another group. We seem to be losing sight of common sense and a sense of balance.
@(f)politics? wrote:
@jen_jen wrote:
Regardless of whether we’re talking about race, gender, sexuality, disability etc., it’s not words that are offensive, it’s not the toys that are offensive, it’s the context in which they are used and the intent behind them.
Absolutely jen i agree 100%. i’ve said this before that people should worry less about what words are being used and more about the context they are used in or towards someone.
Don’t ban the word slap the nasty eejit saying em. People can be just as offensive without using such words and as much of a bully, so yep i agree totally.Some words are offensive…they may not have been offensive years ago…..that doesn’t mean they can be used now….
how can you slap the eejit for using a word that isn’t deemed offensive?? The word has to be offensive in the first place :roll:@jen_jen wrote:
I’m not sure if I’ve shared this story here before or whether it was on another forum so apologies if I’m repeating myself.
I had an older cousin who was an only child and was spoilt rotten. She always had the most exquisite dolls, the kind that you looked at and didn’t play with. One of my favourites was a black doll that had the prettiest face, thick afro-style hair, gold earrings and deep brown eyes…bear in mind that this was at a time when most dolls were white, had straight blonde or brown hair and blue eyes so to my young eyes she was very different and special.
A few years ago her daughter asked if she could borrow one of her dolls as her daughter (my cousin’s granddaughter) had to take in an old toy that her parents or grandparents might have played with. She selected my favourite doll, still as pristine and beautiful as ever. Alas she didn’t get shown to the class…the teacher confiscated it and asked he mother to come to the school to discuss it. She had deemed this beautiful doll as racist because it was black and had afro-style hair. She didn’t know quite what to say when it was pointed out that it was more racist to think that only white dolls were acceptable or that racially correct depiction in the afro hair was in some way offensive.
Whilst I abhor racism and all forms of prejudice, it does seem that sometimes we bend over so far to not cause offence to one group that it is more offensive in its own way as we almost seem to be denying their existence or, in avoiding offending one group ending up offending another group. We seem to be losing sight of common sense and a sense of balance.
Isn’t there a middle ground which most normal people stand on. On either side though there is a racist area and an anti-racist area.
The racists and anti-racists annoy the hell out of me.
I remember reading about a woman who’d complained to the police that a shopkeeper had a golliwog on display in a shop window. I don’t see what the offence was, but the woman who’d complained had it in her mind that it breached some kind of racist law that existed. In reality it was her attempt at being a do-gooder. The only ‘good’ thing about it is that it highlighted her complete and utter stupidity.
@kent f OBE wrote:
I don’t think the product (the doll) as such is offensive at all, nor do I think the doll lost it’s job because it was black.
Why is everyone skirting round the issue of the name? It’s the name that IS offensive. The name of the product is gollywog. For some reason Panda doesm’t mention this in her opening post. Why would anyone think Jack Golly is offensive and why would anyone think that the physical appearance of that toy is offensive?
The toy is gollywog and it’s not an appropriate name in this day and age…we have moved on (apparantly). It is obvious that the exact doll cannot be re branded as the original name will always stickI know Jack is really a gollywog but when I was kid my golly was just golly.
And I hate the word wog – it brings back the name calling I got @ school in the late 70s and 80s.
@terry wrote:
Isn’t there a middle ground which most normal people stand on. On either side though there is a racist area and an anti-racist area.
The racists and anti-racists annoy the hell out of me.
I remember reading about a woman who’d complained to the police that a shopkeeper had a golliwog on display in a shop window. I don’t see what the offence was, but the woman who’d complained had it in her mind that it breached some kind of racist law that existed. In reality it was her attempt at being a do-gooder. The only ‘good’ thing about it is that it highlighted her complete and utter stupidity.
Is this the story to which you refer: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052793/Golliwog-race-hate-charges-dropped-Jena-Mason.html
Total waste of the tax payer’s money to bring the charges in the first place. :roll:
The Gollywog on the jam jar? Why on earth would a large corporation selling a sugar based product want to promote the idea that it’s main ingredient was associated with cuteness and inoffensiveness rather than a history of barbaric slavery and (then) present of harsh inhumane employment? (Compare with the images of beautiful, poised adult tea-pickers and noble, muscular coal-miners etc. used to good/bad effect by other unethical employers).
Children loved gollywogs and saw no racist connotation? Long may the innocence of childhood continue!
One teacher refuses to allow a beautiful black doll into the classroom on Toy Day? That’s one teacher being unreasonable, not ‘us’ being afraid of offence – I doubt she thought she was representing any movement with her mistaken idea of racism.
We’re adults and some harsh realities exist, cars pollute, guns’ primary purpose is to kill and adults usually have functioning genitals. We have defined a different social context for many of the trappings of mid-20th century childhood.
And yes, I had a gollywog as a child, saw it then as no different from other toys. But I’m not 7 any more, and while I wish I was as cute now as I was then, I do find it as offensive as the casual violence that my peers and I took for granted, or the games of doctor over which I draw a veil . . . . . .
Unfortunately for quick and easy analysis, the original context and intent of the gollywog is larger and based on political and economic realities which made it inappropriate then and now in my opinion.
Nostalgia however, isn’t what it used to be . . . . . . . .
I don’t understand that teacher – as I have been led to believe, large toy manufacturers are purposefully making dolls etc with dark skin to be politically correct! :?
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