Boards Index › General discussion › Getting serious › It’s a funny old world innit
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23 February, 2007 at 3:02 am #6400
I’m new to this kind of thing & have been reading some of the posts. One thing that has struck me recently is the furore over road pricing. The idiot Blair & his henchmen & women fight an illegal war, but thats okay. They ban smoking in pubs ensuring the end of an institution thats been with us for the best part of 800 years, thats okay as well. But as soon as they ask motorists to pay their dues zap 1 million morons sign a petition. If the government said they were going to start crucifying our children less fuss would be made.
I’m going to retire to Bedlam & find some sanity.23 February, 2007 at 10:04 am #261937I think that perhaps you should stop bending over and taking whatever the media wants to slip you and try dusting of your brain and using it to think freely and without direction about things personally and then, just maybe you MIGHT be able to grasp the seriousness of the impact road pricing would have on society
Chances are you might not tho from the sound of your thread, but I’m always the optimist
23 February, 2007 at 3:20 pm #261938Maybe you would like to explain the catastrophe that would befall us all with road pricing. It’s not like it is that expensive to run a car. In fact it is, in real terms much cheaper to run a car now than at any time in the last 30 years.
On the subject of dusting off my brain maybe a little break from the petrol fumes would make for a more polite discussion.23 February, 2007 at 3:40 pm #261939Well whizzing through superficially the government is selectively representing the issue
They have moved away from pollution as the excuse to tax motorists and have started on cost and congestion
The premise itself is flawed as motorists tax is diverted so only a fraction is spent on roads and this has gone on for decades so rather than a burden to the tax payer motorists are keeping a wasteful one afloat
Congestion is being rapidly created NOT by the claimed increase in cars, but my hundreds of thousands of lost road miles all over the country to cycle lanes, bus lanes, crossings and other traffic obstacles reducing road size and stealing entire lanes in a road system that needed to be bolstered 30 years ago but wasnt
The financial angle they are presenting is the loss to business because of congestion,
1 this ONLY happens if a vehicle IS caught in it
2 where its an employee commuting most are docked pay or work late anyway
3 it could be avoided with flexhours schemes anyway
4 they conveniently avoid mentioning how much of that is due to road works for pedestrian crossings, traffic lights, cycle lanes, bus lanes etc etc etcBut introduce the charging system and business STILL gets hit financially, but then its every single business whether they are caught in traffic, run vehicles or not and those costs ripple onto any business they then deal with and eventually to the consumer
Social points
People dont now work and live all their life near where they were born
The social effects include but wouldnt be linked to
Added time commuting, which will curtail peoples social life, time and energy for parenting, for maintaining family bonds etc
Add 4 hours travelling instead of one hours drive to a 10 or 12 hour day and then see how good a parent that person will be
Single parents with several kids who are priced out of cars wont be able to cover a 15 minute drive to drop one child off at one activity and make it to pick another up elsewhere when it entails a one hour commute for the same thing
Family weekend trips for people on low wages will become as much a luxury as a holiday is when just the road tax alone is a hundred quid to go to the seaside
Every item we buy will be affected by increases in transportation and increased wages that would need to be paid, which again ripples down
Many low paid jobs have non reasonable hours, and the public transport system doesnt accomodate safety or ease of travel past peak times
The stregnth of family is already falling apart, but as more people move hundreds of miles for work this will be stretched even further
And then theres tourism, day activities like alton towers, commuting as part of a social life and people being able to date long distance, all of which will be negatively effected
These are just specific and isolated examples, but each represents a whole section of social things that will be impacted on by a road toll
And all this on the back of the fraud of taking tax from motorists under the guise of it being for the cost of the roads and then diverting most of it eslewhere
if the money had been ringfenced to begin with we would have the best motorway system in the world and billions still in the bank unspent
23 February, 2007 at 11:18 pm #261940@ubermik wrote:
Well whizzing through superficially the government is selectively representing the issue
Congestion is being rapidly created NOT by the claimed increase in cars, but my hundreds of thousands of lost road miles all over the country to cycle lanes, bus lanes, crossings and other traffic obstacles reducing road size and stealing entire lanes in a road system that needed to be bolstered 30 years ago but wasnt
Talk about selective representation.
You base an argument on a supposition which we are expected to accept with no evidence- next time I’m stuck in a 2 hour queue on the M6, or M25, or M4, or M1 or A1 or A14 or etc etc (caused by sheer volume of traffic), I’ll feel better for knowing the true reason is the mythical cycle lane running down the hard shoulder
The answer is not to simply raise a further tax through road charges but look at the reasons behind congestion- school runs have a massive impact between 0800 and 0900 (been lovely this week for those who live in an area which is on half term) as one example
24 February, 2007 at 12:56 am #261941ubermik wrote:Well whizzing through superficially the government is selectively representing the issueThey have moved away from pollution as the excuse to tax motorists and have started on cost and congestion
The premise itself is flawed as motorists tax is diverted so only a fraction is spent on roads and this has gone on for decades so rather than a burden to the tax payer motorists are keeping a wasteful one afloat
Congestion is being rapidly created NOT by the claimed increase in cars, but my hundreds of thousands of lost road miles all over the country to cycle lanes, bus lanes, crossings and other traffic obstacles reducing road size and stealing entire lanes in a road system that needed to be bolstered 30 years ago but wasnt
The financial angle they are presenting is the loss to business because of congestion,
1 this ONLY happens if a vehicle IS caught in it
2 where its an employee commuting most are docked pay or work late anyway
3 it could be avoided with flexhours schemes anyway
4 they conveniently avoid mentioning how much of that is due to road works for pedestrian crossings, traffic lights, cycle lanes, bus lanes etc etc etcBut introduce the charging system and business STILL gets hit financially, but then its every single business whether they are caught in traffic, run vehicles or not and those costs ripple onto any business they then deal with and eventually to the consumer
Social points
People dont now work and live all their life near where they were born
The social effects include but wouldnt be linked to
Added time commuting, which will curtail peoples social life, time and energy for parenting, for maintaining family bonds etc
Add 4 hours travelling instead of one hours drive to a 10 or 12 hour day and then see how good a parent that person will be
Single parents with several kids who are priced out of cars wont be able to cover a 15 minute drive to drop one child off at one activity and make it to pick another up elsewhere when it entails a one hour commute for the same thing
Family weekend trips for people on low wages will become as much a luxury as a holiday is when just the road tax alone is a hundred quid to go to the seaside
Every item we buy will be affected by increases in transportation and increased wages that would need to be paid, which again ripples down
Many low paid jobs have non reasonable hours, and the public transport system doesnt accomodate safety or ease of travel past peak times
The stregnth of family is already falling apart, but as more people move hundreds of miles for work this will be stretched even further
And then theres tourism, day activities like alton towers, commuting as part of a social life and people being able to date long distance, all of which will be negatively effected
These are just specific and isolated examples, but each represents a whole section of social things that will be impacted on by a road toll
And all this on the back of the fraud of taking tax from motorists under the guise of it being for the cost of the roads and then diverting most of it eslewhere
if the money had been ringfenced to begin with we would have the best motorway system in the world and billions still in the bank unspent
All you have said reinforces my opinion about the automobile. Each point sounds like an excuse to build more roads. Maybe a more logical approach would be to house people nearer to their workplace. Stop doting parents driving children 400 m to school.
There is a need for cars they do serve a purpose but it seems at the moment that the car is the most important thing in some individuals lives.
It amy be obvious but I don’t drive & have not driven for 10 years. I manage to get around the country without too much bother & never get caught in traffic jams. Try public transport it’s not as bad as you may think. Who knows you may get to like it.24 February, 2007 at 1:37 am #261942Slayer, most bus lanes are empty for most of the day whilst cars are bumper to bumper in the solitary lane next to them
We have a classic example here which is a new bypass built just 5 years ago, when it opened traffic flowed smoothly throughout all rush hours bar one main exit to dudley which was left a single carriageway despite being the only path to quite a major town
Since then traffic lights have been added at every island on that road along with speed cameras and some pedestrican crossing and one set of lights purely to provide access to a warehouse despite there being an island a mere hundred yards further down the road that often stops traffic when nobody is turning
With all of these measures to AID traffic flow there are now traffic jams every morning and every night in both directions, this sort of bad planning is going on nationwide and if not a deliberate plan to create the illusion of congestion above its actual level is one hell of a coincidence at the same time the government have moved their focus from pullution whrre they have lost any credence in their arguement onto congestion which is the new snake oil for raising taxes
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