Boards Index General discussion Getting serious Intelligence as a method of control?

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 14 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #7216

    This is another thread that most probably requires too much of an open mind and an ability to think freely for this place, but I thought I’d post it anyway lol :lol:

    Consider first the ideal world for POLITICIANS

    A note, for the extent of this the terms academic and scientist are pretty much interchangeable as both require funding and each influences different aspects of our everyday life as a result of their research and “discoveries”

    This would be one where the ordinary people dont bother thinking, where they feel that they arent “intelligent” and therefore wouldnt and couldnt have anything valid to say as they dont properly comprehend the problems

    In THAT world, the thinking would all be done by “scientists”, but as scientists rely quite heavily on funding both from government and private business the funding would be given to the “scientists” that have or are trying to “prove” the conclusions that a particular business or political agenda wants to be able to claim

    So where that outcome is innacurate and another one is actually right but doesnt give the answers wanted the incorrect research would be funded and the correct one wouldnt be

    The population then for the most part would pretty much without question just blindly accept the claims of the scientists because they ARE scientists and are therefore more “intellectual” so they know better

    The process to achieve this political nirvana would most probably be quite subtle, involving things such as directing what people should think in response to most topics, even where possible forcing them through legislation to accept a stance that goes outside the bounds of common sense, fair play and equality

    Because once you can start making people throw away basic tools for free thought you can make them think whatever you tell them to think thereafter

    it would also rely on making the already won over majority ridicule, demonise and criticise any resilient pockets of free thought until people who do see through the BS are badgered into stiffling any voicing of what they can see or dont believe as was the case with heretics in religious times

    Which in itself creates a sense of futility even where doubt exists, a sense that no matter how wrong something is it just cant be changed which in turn over time leads to blind acceptance via different route

    Theres also the human need to “evolve”, in a world where the illusion that intellect and “knowing” are in some way linked to education and certificates a sense that the less educated you are the less “intelligent” you would be, as gaining that “intellect” isn’t always available a half way house of absorbing and regurgitating what the accepted “intellects” claim would give some at least a feeling of being “in the know” without ACTUALLY knowing. This in turn would create a form of second hand snobbery and the belief that those who didn’t absorb what they were told weren’t “in the know” and were therefore less “intelligent”

    Sounds a bit like a sci fi story really I admit

    But consider modern times, most people, even those who buy into the overall concepts on things like racism, sexism and the like can or could see that “equality” wasnt what was being pushed at all. When such a basic preconceptual building block is allowed to be redefined its a step backwards in the realms of free thinking and open minded reasoning

    Intellect itself. what of that?

    people do seem nowadays much mroe ready to believe a scientific train of thought on most things whether social, economic or global. But academic intelligence isnt really too much to do with free thought, its a taught thing for the most part and relies on the ability to remember and regurgitate whats already been concluded without question rather than create new thoughts

    Many very highly honoured academics have never ever created anything new in their lifetime, they have built their status on the bones of what has been claimed before

    And yet some of the most ground breaking alterations in what we think, see and use have come from comparatively uneducated folks too, not JUST scientists

    yet despite that and the financial pressure science is under to acquire funding there still seems to be a mass swing away from self thought towards a blind acceptance of not only what the media tells us, but also towards a sense that we, as an individual cant alter anything

    Which is infact true, an individual CANT change much at all

    But over time and throughout history massive social change has been brought about by a single uneducated person who didnt stop doubting, didnt believe change cant happen and over time gained the support of many other “individuals” until that snowball was big enough to crush anything in its path

    The last example of that I can think of in this country tho was the objection to the pole tax, even with the far more reaching pay per mile scheme it only seemed to get any furrore because ALL people had to do was log onto a web page to object

    So as far fetched as the first part of this thread was or seemed, in reality just how far away from it are we?

    #273099

    Nah, you’re just being paranoid. Commies usually are.

    #273100

    /chuckles.

    #273101

    :wink:

    #273102

    :wink:

    #273103

    The only thing about that being far fetched…is that it is going too or could happen, when it is already in effect.

    #273104

    But in the current age, when access to information via a multi media global highway, surely the main reason for this scenario is not so much an inability to understand what is happening and hence it occur through acceptance but an understanding of what is happening through reading, research and discovery (espcially via the web which is not controlled in terms of content) and an acceptance of the inability to change what you know. It is more apathy than ignorance.

    This is why we barely have 60% of the electorate vote- the apathy that it is going to happen, you know power corrupts and you know your vote counts for jack unless you’re in a very marginal area. You accept what is going to happen in the knowledge it is and prepare yourself to survive, thrive and evolve within the boundaries you know to exist.

    Take 9/11. The “official” version is science led, the twin towers collapsed through internal structural meltdown- all sounds very right and proper. Through the internet particularly (in light of the republican dominated media, especially TV), many many challenges have been posted and read. Theories about etc which has led to the incredible statistic that only 4 in 10 americans believe the government had NOTHING to do with 9/11. BUT even though the majority have their doubts and many do not believe the official version, Bush will not fall because of it but it is apathy and a lack of concerted will to coordinate the opposition, not the ignorance of the masses that believes, carte blanche, the official line.

    I would strongly oppose the view that this country blindly accepts scientific reason (MMR as a prime example)- 50 years ago when the “masses” were told something or asked something, the response was “how do you want it done and what do we need to do”. Now when the masses are asked or told something the answer invariably is “why”. This infects the workplace and the home- children question everything to a degree which would have been unheard of 50 years ago. We are now brought up to disbelieve rather than believe what we are told, I encourage all my staff at work to challenge and confirm everything and not blindly accept without question.

    Of course this has its drawsback, individually, collectively and for society- continuing questioning and a lack of cohesive direction of travel leads to disenchantment, disillusionment and apathy. It leads to a selfish, “me, me,me” attitude rather than a mutually supportive community attitude

    Naturally politicians are not unaware of this change in our society and would suggest they view the mass media (TV especially) as a greater way of social control such is the scepticism by which most of what the government says is greeted. (A good day to bury bad news!).

    Evolution is constant- 40 years ago we were a class ridden society which voted in accordance with your social class, lived and worked in accordance with your social class and married and died in accordance with your social class. Thatcherism and free market economics brought with it triumph and tragedy (whether this evolution therefore was forced via policy or natural through societies reaction to the external environment I am open to debate) and we saw a societal evolution not experienced since the industrial revolution (even greater than that following the Great War)

    IMO :D

    #273105

    Well credit where credits due Slayer, excellent post

    The thing is tho, I didnt and wouldnt claim that in any populace every person would react in the same way to the same stimulus, as such the hypothesis could only be put forward as how SOME people would react

    As for the example of 9/11, right from day one the “scientists” have been quite vocally contradiciting each other, so IMO its a different scenario to begin with because of that#

    But with other topics the only real visible scientific voice is all in unison and any dissent no matter how well qualified or world renowned is ridiculed, demonised and doesnt get much if any media airtime

    So although their is two opposing views, only 1 gets mass exposure unlike with the 911 thing where both sides have been to some extent quite visible

    With topics like the aids virus tho and global warming, the political pressue has made many quite well reknowned scientists with quite valid intrinsic evidence keep quiet and when many have expressed opposition they have been ridiculed, criticised and even threatened as well as losing their jobs and/or funding

    So the social awareness of the “scientific view” on those amongst other topics isnt quite as two sided by any means

    But I did also mention the apathetic “I cant change anything so why bother” attitude too anyway in the original post if you look back, so its hardly the case that I said this was the ONLY possibility and EVERYONE would do it

    But I also think that 911 has a much more visible opposing side to it than global warming, aids and several other quite major topics, and those were the ones I was more focussed on with this thread whereas one connectied to something like 911 I would have had the apathy as the main side effect and the intellectual snobery as the secondary one as even in that sort of scenario there still wouldnt just be one psychological reaction to whats seen

    #273106

    I dont entirely disagree but feel the internet has given global access to all and almost every scientific view has a contrary one published somewhere. I think the government support for almost any view, particularly scientific, has been seen almost as a death knoll in light of the Hutton fiasco and the 45 minute WMD (intelligence led I know but underpinned by scientific foundation).

    It is an interesting hypothesis all round- from my view, as contrary, I think we are almost at the stage where there are so many theories bounded as fact, irrational ideas bounded as rational evidential and tested and the public dont know what to believe.

    Accepted the 9/11 isnt necessarily the best example, I have seen some incredibly detailed documentary stuff (the one on download which I cant remember the title of) which plays like it is almost irrefutable evidence but which I have no idea if it is fact, fiction or both.

    I would agree a political consensus, such as global warming, does see dissenting voices hounded as barking mad professors with nothing better to do and cross party support does give political credence (generally speaking) to a scientific view and hence public acceptance.

    #273107

    I think the internet and the abundance of information on it is actually an interesting point and perhaps even another topic

    The best description of the internet I have ever heard is that its like having the best library ever to exist hidden in the cellar of the worlds largest sex shop lol

    The problem is that if you look at not only common useage but also attributed social problems the wealth of distractions is a far more widely utilised aspect of the net than the educational element

    Apply the same critique to television for a moment, cable and satelite both have a mass of educational and scientific channels and programmes, but are they the most heavily watched? Nowhere near, infact they are at best marginal channels

    Television is for the masses an escape from the realities of everyday life, as such the sort of programs watched are far from being ones based on knowledge learning or self betterment and the same applies to the internet with music, gambling, porn and gaming sites being by far some of the highest used forms of sites surfed

    Diversity means SOME people WILL log on and without reason seek out educational or knowledge based sites, even current affairs ones. But short of an actual query for a particular question most peoples surfing is entertainment based or a form of utter escapism as it is with the television

    So yeah, the internet DOES contain an unbridled amount of information and different perspectives, but honestly, how many people even bother?

    The same apathy you mentioned, the social conditioning towards abstract escapist pursuits such as computergames and funny videos etc hardly help to make people crave to learn, the sense that nothing can be changed doesnt exactly make people see a point in finding out and verifying “facts”

    Infact if that was the case the broadsheets would be the most popular papers, the libraries we have would be full to bursting, the history channel would be a premium channel, newsnight would have higher viewing figures than eastenders and that same interest in facts current events and understanding the world around us would probably lead to almost 100% turn out for voting

    How many of those are the case tho?

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 14 total)

Get involved in this discussion! Log in or register now to have your say!