Heaven Can Wait

@jen_jen wrote:

@sceptical guy wrote:

Of course, rationalism doesn’t begin to grasp things like death, afterlife or lack of it, etc Jen goes one step further to affirm the existence of spirits, I guess I’m trying to probe those problems too, though Christianity appeals to me more that it seems to appeal to Jen (not the Christianity of the bornagain b umhole who came in to denounce Jen in her shop).

Ah you misunderstand me scept, I don’t have a problem with Christianity, I don’t have a problem with any religion…although I do have a problem with fundamentalists from any religion or walk of life as they are generally the most closed-minded people, coming from a place of fear and judgement, that it has ever been my misfortune to meet. Aspects of Christianity do appeal to me, as do aspects of the other religions, but I find it hard to fit my personal faith and belief system into any one religious box and that includes spiritualism. As for the existence of spirits…well my thoughts are complex on that matter, I don’t think of spirits as being simply the souls that have passed on. We are all spirit, we are spiritual beings living an earthly life…hard to explain here, it’s more an “over a cup of coffee or three” kind of conversation! My beliefs are based on personal experience, something that I guess Terry would dismiss as emotive argument, but I cannot deny what I have experienced without then thinking that I, and many people that I know, must therefore be quite mad.

I agree with the rest of your post though. When I am challenged on my beliefs and asked to explain them scientifically I have to say that I can’t, but then it’s not that long ago that we couldn’t explain thunder and lightening and thought they were signs from the gods – now we know better. At some point science will explain everything that I, and others like me, experience – I know that there is already scientific evidence to support some of it – but I hope that won’t happen in my lifetime cos I kinda like the magic and wonderment of it all. :D

Ergo – what I have typed!

@jen_jen wrote:

So?

Took me only 4 lines – that is “so”!

@anc wrote:

@jen_jen wrote:

So?

Took me only 4 lines – that is “so”!

Oh I’m sorry for taking more than 4 lines to explain my beliefs…feel free to not read it.

re the cartoon-joke above –

actually, and strangest of all given the nature of this chatsite, I’ve found this discussion to be one of the least conflict-ridden I’ve known on this subject.

Everyone’s being honest, nobody’s mocking anyone else for their views or their confusions. I can say things, and get things wrong (and I do get a lot of things wrong on this) without being jumped on by Godz-fearers or militant atheists – Mrs T can wander off mumbling and I understand her indoing that – it’s a rational response.

That’s good. Just as people can establish a way of talking which makes personal hurting and smart-aleck attitudes the norm, so can honest discussion between people who tolerate each other’s differences become the norm.

But admitting confusion and our limits of udnerstanding is a start – not an end. I’m now coming to see that.

I do think reason plays a role through doubt, and that’s very important to me, esp at the moment. I’m reading the Catholic visionary Adrienne von Speyr on death, and I find a lot of it very useful, and also pretty mind-blowing. The problem is that it’s so powerful that unless I take care it takes me into areas I don’t want to go – I’m not a Roman Catholic, and have little time for mariology, the seven sacraments, and all that (note that I didn’t say no time). So I cherry pick – take the good stuff while rejecting the bad. Doubt and reason are needed for that.

Thos bornagain in the righteousness of the almighty Godz please take note.

I rarely discuss religion and faith on forums as it can be so contentious…hence my reluctance to share anything of my views here initially. Even now I have only shared the tip of my iceberg.

The thing is, we can all hold our beliefs dear to us but we can’t prove them any more than anyone else can disprove them…it doesn’t matter to me whether people agree or disagree with my beliefs, they are mine and resonate with me. My personal experiences are another matter and much harder to share as I can see how they could be mocked and used as a weapon against me, yet for me they are significant and deeply appreciated.