Heaven Can Wait

@wakeupdeadisgodlike wrote:

Wow Gaz is back. Get banged up for having no TV license?

I got sky 24/7 . . . . would I ? :lol: :wink:

@wakeupdeadisgodlike wrote:

Wow Gaz is back. Get banged up for having no TV license?

I like to keep things like this simple, you either die, get stuck in a box and get burnt or stuck in a box and eaten by maggots. Nothing more than that. No Heaven, no afterlife, no reincarnation , no haunting people. Nothing.

that is one of the things which seem likely to us, with our limited knowledge.

When I’ve seen someone die, though, I see something quite dramatic – someone’s body literally goes stiff and something in them slips beyond our grasp. They were living, warm, full of the usual mix of love and anger and all the cra p that goes with it – the enxt they are outside our comprehension. Gone – from us. Mothers are affected most terribly by this when their child dies in their arms. When I was a boy, I still remember my grandpa holding out his arms twhen he was talking of teh death of hios small son – but he had a quizzical look on his face, as though he were trying to remember a death of 40 yrs ago, and all the feelings associated with it..

I don’t know one who’s come back to say anything – anything at all. I’ve had strong images, very vivid ones of the dead person at funerals looking at me and smiling, and sometimes often afterwards – I still keep seeing my mother’s image. These images seem real, but are they phantasms of the imagination or something else?

If you’re a primitive materisalist like Mr Wakeup, then the answer’s very simple and straightforward – literally down-to-earth.

But, tbh, I really don’t know.

So, Mr Wakeup, you may well be right, but – how do you know?

@anc wrote:

Like I said Skep – if you kinda feel love and a warm feeling when you think of your mum – ’tis nice – no harm in that. x

Well, most of us feel that, anc. No need t comment on it at all.

My guess is that even Mr wakeup feels that, or will feel that.

I was making a different point about death; what I regarded as an important point.

Did I not come across clearly?

@anc wrote:

Yes you did, sorry I obviously didn’t! :oops:

I had to go back to near the beginning before I found you point, anc.

My apologies now. Yes, you did make it there. and probably as rational a point as you can get.

Of course, rationalism doesn’t begin to grasp things like death, afterlife or lack of it, etc Jen goes one step further to affirm the existence of spirits, I guess I’m trying to probe those problems too, though Christianity appeals to me more that it seems to appeal to Jen (not the Christianity of the bornagain b umhole who came in to denounce Jen in her shop).

Not sure I can get through to Mr Wakeup, though, as he is rooted very firmly in the common sense of the age.

So a simple point in three paragraphs – hope you read them through to the end, peeps..

1. The common sense of 2000 in Western Europe (nowhere else, I think) is disenchanted – there’s no afterlife, no God, we live on a cold and purposeless piece of rock which could be smashed to pieces at some point by asteroids. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a dreamer and maybe educationally and emotionally challenged (note the pcorrect language). We survive the best way we can, though as there’s no God and conscience is socially constructed, only our individual character, public opinion and police action can stop us doing what the hell we want, no matter who gets hurt. There are Christians, spiritualists, etc etc but they sound out of sorts, a bit odd, given the common sense and way of acting of 2000.

2 But the common sense of 1500 was one of an enchanted world — hobgoblins and elves and demons were everywhere, just around the corner, and had to be countered by lucky charms, prayers to particular saints, the power of the Church. You couldn’t do what you liked coz Godz was watching and boy was his mate the Devil sharpening his pitchfork to have fun with your backside when you died. There were atheists like Mr Wakeup, but they were oddities, liable to be burned if found out, and sounded a bit odd, given the common sense and way of acting of 1500.

3 Now, the enchanted world of 1500 sounds weird to most of us. Who’s to say that Mr Wakeup’s primitive materialism and the current belief that science is god won’t seem very strange in 2500, if the world is here. After all, it’s only in recent years that scientists have started to admit that 94% of the cosmos is literally out of our ken in black holes and dark energy.

I’m not sure what I believe… it changes with my mood and my life situation.

I was thinking about the soul though… and maybe its just survival… I hope this makes sense, I think certain mentioned something similar in an earlier post.

We are a form of energy maybe nothing more… whilst we are here we procreate and continue the species when we die we fertilise the soil for future generations then in turn our children die they do the same so in a way we do indeed live forever.

Its just not with the same consciousness.

Gosh hope that makes sense…… goes off mumbling and confused :D