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Sorry but I really don’t agree with your analysis Mr B. OK I know you are really sympathetic to the Palestinian cause etc etc and they seem to be able to do no wrong – whoever they murder and however many they murder, where they murder them and even how they murder them. OK they whinge on and on about their human rights and how terribly Israel has behaved for the last … (fill in your own number)… years.
Yes, it is fashionable to blame the US for everything so why not jump on that bandwaggon? Hey, all the other Lefties and ”Human Rights” activists are doing it, so why not you?
But you know the bottom line is that the Israelis are tough bastards who don’t give in. Kill one of theirs and they’ll come after you for ever. Shell their country from the Golan Heights and they’ll push you off it and occupy it to stop you – and the hell with International opinion.
So quoting (toothless) UN resolutions is a total waste of time – everybody else in the world ignores them so why not the Israelis? Regurgitating ‘history’ to prove a point is futile. The plain fact is that Israel is there and they are going to fight tooth and nail to the last drop of blood to stay there.
They have built a whopping big wall to keep the terrorist suicide bombers out – fine, let the Palestinians get on with making their bit of country wealthy and concentrate on growing for the future instead of consuming themselves with hatred and bitterness.
It’s time they got over it and moved on.
@forumhostpb wrote:
Sorry but I really don’t agree with your analysis Mr B. OK I know you are really sympathetic to the Palestinian cause etc etc and they seem to be able to do no wrong – whoever they murder and however many they murder, where they murder them and even how they murder them. OK they whinge on and on about their human rights and how terribly Israel has behaved for the last … (fill in your own number)… years.
Yes, it is fashionable to blame the US for everything so why not jump on that bandwaggon? Hey, all the other Lefties and ”Human Rights” activists are doing it, so why not you?
But you know the bottom line is that the Israelis are tough bastards who don’t give in. Kill one of theirs and they’ll come after you for ever. Shell their country from the Golan Heights and they’ll push you off it and occupy it to stop you – and the hell with International opinion.
So quoting (toothless) UN resolutions is a total waste of time – everybody else in the world ignores them so why not the Israelis? Regurgitating ‘history’ to prove a point is futile. The plain fact is that Israel is there and they are going to fight tooth and nail to the last drop of blood to stay there.
They have built a whopping big wall to keep the terrorist suicide bombers out – fine, let the Palestinians get on with making their bit of country wealthy and concentrate on growing for the future instead of consuming themselves with hatred and bitterness.
It’s time they got over it and moved on.
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
Sorry but I really don’t agree with your analysis Mr B. OK I know you are really sympathetic to the Palestinian cause etc etc and they seem to be able to do no wrong – whoever they murder and however many they murder, where they murder them and even how they murder them. OK they whinge on and on about their human rights and how terribly Israel has behaved for the last … (fill in your own number)… years.
I think when it comes to who and how many are murdered, Israel is the easy winner, they are very practised at it.
Yes, it is fashionable to blame the US for everything so why not jump on that bandwaggon? Hey, all the other Lefties and ”Human Rights” activists are doing it, so why not you?
Who are we supposed to blame, they are the ones supporting Israel, and block any attempts at control.
But you know the bottom line is that the Israelis are tough bastards who don’t give in. Kill one of theirs and they’ll come after you for ever. Shell their country from the Golan Heights and they’ll push you off it and occupy it to stop you – and the hell with International opinion.
The Nazis were tough b……s, maybe the Israelis should be given the same treatment as they got.
So quoting (toothless) UN resolutions is a total waste of time – everybody else in the world ignores them so why not the Israelis? Regurgitating ‘history’ to prove a point is futile. The plain fact is that Israel is there and they are going to fight tooth and nail to the last drop of blood to stay there.
They would be more affective if the US would back them.
They have built a whopping big wall to keep the terrorist suicide bombers out – fine, let the Palestinians get on with making their bit of country wealthy and concentrate on growing for the future instead of consuming themselves with hatred and bitterness.
Even that is built on Palestinian land, as you say let the Palestinians have their land back, kick the Israelis out, if they won’t leave then let them be buried there. Thats the only bit of Palestine they deserve.
It’s time they got over it and moved on.[/color]
PB is spot on with this
Why don’t the Palestinians – if there are such a race – settle for what they have got – better still be integrated within the other Arab countries where they belong – Jordan etc
It just takes them to make a move – then peace will follow – but I guess they don’t really want a peace – they are happier when they are at conflict – so it’s never ending
Israel is a small state amongst a huge Arab empire – of course the USA is going to support it
It’s a fact of life – all those supported by the best survive and prosper
There’s plenty of land out there for the Palestinians – …………………
Ruby, as others have said more eloquently before me, we are getting utterly bored with ‘Palestinian’ history lessons. OK the history is quite interesting, but we are still awaiting the lesson.
Droning on about the US supporting Israel is simply stating the bleeding obvious. So the Palestinians also have their (Arab) supporters as well. Looks like everybody is fighting this conflict through third parties eh?
Sorry PB but your analysis defies logic. You’re basically saying that international law and human rights don’t matter. If you follow that argument to its logical conclusion then the genocide that Milosevic tried to carry out in Kosovo was ok, Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait was justified and Bin laden’s attack on sept 11 was ok too. You can’t have a world where nobody obeys international law, it would take us back into the dark ages.
I just think you people have no idea about the sort of human rights abuses that have been going on there on a daily basis. Palestinians have been tortured, murdered, they’ve had their land forcibly taken from them, they’ve had their homes bulldozed (sometimes while they’re still inside them), children have been murdered and tortured too, people have been used as human shields by Israeli soldiers, ambulances have been fired on with machine guns and tanks, paramedics have been shot at while carrying out their duties, ambulances with dying patients inside have been kept at checkpoints for almost an hour. freedom of movement is restricted, tanks, helicopter gunships, artillery, f-16s fire upon densely populated civilian areas, people are held in Israeli jails for years without ever being charged with any crime…..etc. Check with any human rights organisation including b’tselem and you will see that there is a disturbing level of abuse going on. Why would hundreds of israeli soldiers refuse to serve in the Occupied Territories if there was nothing sinister going on there?
The wall that the Israelis are building was deemed illegal by the World Court because it’s not built on Israel’s border. It cuts deeply into Palestinian territory and is seen as an attempt to annex Palestinian land. You can’t go around stealing other people’s land. Hitler tried the same thing. He decided that his neighbours were subhuman and that their land was rightfully his. He drove out the original inhabitants and got ethnic Germans to move into the newly conquered land. Now we see Jews from Eastern Europe moving into the Occupied territories, land that they stole from the Palestinians and land that they believe is theirs by divine right. The parallel with the nazi policy of “living space” is quite stark.
How can you seriously say that the Palestinians should be satisfied with what they have when what they have keeps being taken from them? When the settlements expand what do you think they build them on? Do you think the settlements are built up in the clouds? Do you think their “security fence” doesn’t need ground to be built on? You don’t build settlements unless your objective is to annex somebody else’s land. You don’t celebrate the capture of jerusalem and call it “the eternal and undivided capital of the Jewish state” if you have any intention of ever giving Palestinians control of East Jerusalem.
The bottom line is that the mandate that gives Israel the right to exist gives the palestinians a right to a state on the West bank. If you don’t believe in the mandate then it follows that you don’t believe in Israel’s right to exist because without the mandate there is no right. You can talk till the cows come home about how you think the Israelis are entitled to the golan and the west bank and jerusalem but your opinion isn’t worth sh1t because there is no entitlement to those things. The fact that no country apart from Israel recognizes the occupied territories as being part of Israel proves that your opinions about Israel’s rights to that land are worthless.
Yes this is all fascinating Mr B but now let’s try to live in the real world shall we???
@Mr Bigstuff wrote:
Sorry PB but your analysis defies logic. You’re basically saying that international law and human rights don’t matter. If you follow that argument to its logical conclusion then the genocide that Milosevic tried to carry out in Kosovo was ok, Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait was justified and Bin laden’s attack on sept 11 was ok too. You can’t have a world where nobody obeys international law, it would take us back into the dark ages.
Whether they matter or not – and that is still open to debate – the fact is that they are totally ignored by those who want to ignore them. Countries obey international law when it suits them to do so. Terrorist murderers do NOT obey international (or any other) law at all and indeed only cite it or use it as a stick to beat their enemies with.
Terrorists are quick to complain that their so-called Human Rights have been violated whilst at the same time murdering those they oppose. This human rights farce is in reality a smokescreen used to give some sort of justification to acts of murder and terror.
@Mr B wrote:
I just think you people have no idea about the sort of human rights abuses that have been going on there on a daily basis. Palestinians have been tortured, murdered, they’ve had their land forcibly taken from them, they’ve had their homes bulldozed …………………etc etc etc etc ad infinitum
Yeah yeah sure they moan and whinge about THEIR so-called human rights. They are not so vociferous about their human responsibilities though. As for anybody else’s human rights – they don’t seem to have any according to the Palestinian terrorists.
@Mr B wrote:
The wall that the Israelis are building was deemed illegal by the World Court because it’s not built on Israel’s border. It cuts deeply into Palestinian territory and is seen as an attempt to annex Palestinian land. You can’t go around stealing other people’s land …….etc etc etc
Well the wall is there and it looks as though it’s staying there doesn’t it??? The World Court is an utterly toothless tiger, all froth and no substance. Next thing you know they’ll be moaning that the Israelis didn’t have planning permission !!!
It’s a bloody good idea that wall. The Palestinian suicide bombers cannot just enter Israel any more and murder women and children, as they used to do with impunity. So now they moan on and on about their land being taken away. The wall is built where it will have a strategic effect. If the Palestinians don’t like it then maybe they should have packed up murdering the Israelis.
@Mr B wrote:
How can you seriously say that the Palestinians should be satisfied with what they have when what they have keeps being taken from them? When the settlements expand what do you think they build them on? Do you think the settlements are built up in the clouds? Do you think their “security fence” doesn’t need ground to be built on? You don’t build settlements unless your objective is to annex somebody else’s land. You don’t celebrate the capture of jerusalem and call it “the eternal and undivided capital of the Jewish state” if you have any intention of ever giving Palestinians control of East Jerusalem.
Like it or not, Israel builds its settlements and proceeds to cultivate the land and create prosperity from it. The Palestinians are totally involved with constant whingeing about how unfair it is – yet all they seem to focus on is fighting amongst themselves and killing each other, that is when they can’t find any Jews to slaughter.
As i said above, in the absence of any so-called peace, then the wall / ‘security fence’ is a bloody good idea. It keep the two sides apart and prevents any more slaughter.There is no point at all in ”peace talks” – an utter waste of time and no doubt vastly expensive into the bargain. The Palestinians and the Israelis clearly can’t live beside one another in peace and harmony. Fine then the wall will keep them apart and they can all get on with it.
@Mr B wrote:
The bottom line is that the mandate that gives Israel the right to exist gives the palestinians a right to a state on the West bank. If you don’t believe in the mandate then it follows that you don’t believe in Israel’s right to exist because without the mandate there is no right. You can talk till the cows come home about how you think the Israelis are entitled to the golan and the west bank and jerusalem but your opinion isn’t worth sh1t because there is no entitlement to those things. The fact that no country apart from Israel recognizes the occupied territories as being part of Israel proves that your opinions about Israel’s rights to that land are worthless.
Worthless my opinions may be – but they are nevertheless my opinions and i am fully entitled to hold them, even if they do not agree with your own. I have avoided openly insulting you, perhaps you would do me the same courtesy.
Palestinian complaining about ”mandates” , breaches of human rights and so on and so forth is frankly an utter waste if time. The fact is that Israel is there and looks as though it is going to stay there probably for all time.
The best thing that the Palestinians can do for themselves is to stop running off to World Courts and Human Rights activists because we all know that these activities are simply propaganda ploys to get them attention from the world’s Media and to try to justify their murderous activities.
If they disbanded all their numerous groups of so called freedom fighters (terrorist murderers) ans set them to cultivating their land they’d be a lot better off. If they spent less money purchasing arms and spent it instead on paying their civil servants and Police then their ”country” would be able to stabilise and prosper.
All the excuses in the world won’t alter the fact that the Israeli’s are killing and murderering men women and children in a country they are occupying by force, Israel was born in terrorism, ruled by terrorists and is still a terrorist state, it seems the only way to stop it, is to target them as terrorists,
A coalition to invade them and destroy their WMD’s, and kill or arrest the terrorist leaders. and try them as war criminals.
@tiler wrote:
All the excuses in the world won’t alter the fact that the Israeli’s are killing and murderering men women and children in a country they are occupying by force, Israel was born in terrorism, ruled by terrorists and is still a terrorist state, it seems the only way to stop it, is to target them as terrorists,
A coalition to invade them and destroy their WMD’s, and kill or arrest the terrorist leaders. and try them as war criminals.
Interesting viewpoint. And who do you suppose is going to have the balls to take on the Israelis???
PB you’re condoning these violations of international law and human rights and as I said before that kind of mindset is completely irrational. How can you condemn the terrorists for mudering women and children when you’re effectively saying that human rights and international law don’t matter. There is no logic in your argument. You dismiss the human rights of Palestinian civilians in the same way that militant groups disregard the human rights of Israeli civilians, so your argument reeks of hypocrisy. An argument based on gut feeling and not rational thought is not an argument at all. The crux of your argument seems to be that might is right and the ends justify the means which makes you a lot like those followers of al qaeda or members of Islamic jihad.
You also adopt the view that collective punishment towards the Palestinians is justified. It’s another absurd viewpoint because once you follow that principle to its logical conclusions then you end up in ridiculous scenarios. I mean you end up in scenarios where you justify the punishment of a completely innocent individual simply because he holds a particular country’s passport. Not only is it absurd it defeats your entire argument. Applying your own rationale of collective punishment being a justified tactic, then all Israelis deserve to be punished for any wrong-doing carried out by any single Israeli or group of Israelis. Therefore you justify attacks on Israeli women and children and your entire argument falls to pieces.
Well-reasoned arguments are far better than arguments based purely on prejudice.
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