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14 June, 2006 at 9:31 pm #224815
@Mr Bigstuff wrote:
…Finally, the van carrying rockets was actually an ordinary car carrying 2 militants. 9 innocent by-standers were killed by the explosion. Imagine a helicopter gunship hitting a car on your high-street and you’ll get some impression of what the Palestinians have to put up with on a regular basis.
Oh how simply awful. Those nasty Israelis actually having the temerity to attack a car and not a van. That will never do now will it? They even managed to bag two ”militants” eh? (Militants = terrorist murderers). Well that’ll teach them to hump Quassam rockets around. If they had been less stupid and simply driven them straight to the firing point (on the beach???) instead of pissing about and showing off to their seedy mates they could have fired the rockets and killed a few more Jews.
I’ll bet those two ”militants” won’t be shagging 70 virgins tonight eh?
BTW just how stupid do these suicide bombers have to be. Do they really believe that they are going to be given 70 virgins absolutely gagging for it??? I mean really??? Haven’t they managed to work out yet that with all the suicide bombers going to that great bedroom in the sky over the last few years, the entire Middle East has run out of dead virgins for them to hump.
14 June, 2006 at 10:02 pm #224816BTW just how stupid do these suicide bombers have to be. Do they really believe that they are going to be given 70 virgins absolutely gagging for it???
No more stupid than silly sarcastic posts, without much sense.
14 June, 2006 at 10:34 pm #224817@drivel wrote:
@Mr Bigstuff wrote:
Drivel’s history of that area is predictably flawed. First of all, the Hebrews were not the original inhabitants of that land, the Canaanites were
How come my history is flawed just because the books I read are from a Jewish perspective – you are readign from an Arab perspective – that’s how there are differences
I didn’t say the Hebrews were the original inhabitants – I said they had been there since 1300 BC
Of course I have omitted things – theres a shed load of things we can argue aboutPalestinians are arabs indistinguishable from arabs throughout the Middle East The Palestinian national Charter adopted by the PLO states this fact in the 1st Article
The use of the term “palestinian” for an arab ethnic group is a modern political creation which has no basis in fact , and had never had any International or academic credibility before 1967I take issue with Drivel (and Pikey) with reference to the “modern” creation of Palestine as a state.
History clearly lays down the existence of Palestine as part of the Ottoman empire however one of the most famous documents in any nation states history is the “Balfour Declaration” in 1917 which clearly references a Palestinian state in which a jewish home should exist.
Anyone who wishes can google Balfour but the British “controlled” a region known as Palestine and the occupants of that region long before the state of Israel came into being
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/balfour_declaration_of_1917.htm
14 June, 2006 at 11:26 pm #224818@forumhostpb wrote:
@Mr Bigstuff wrote:
…Finally, the van carrying rockets was actually an ordinary car carrying 2 militants. 9 innocent by-standers were killed by the explosion. Imagine a helicopter gunship hitting a car on your high-street and you’ll get some impression of what the Palestinians have to put up with on a regular basis.
Oh how simply awful. Those nasty Israelis actually having the temerity to attack a car and not a van. That will never do now will it? They even managed to bag two ”militants” eh? (Militants = terrorist murderers). Well that’ll teach them to hump Quassam rockets around. If they had been less stupid and simply driven them straight to the firing point (on the beach???) instead of pissing about and showing off to their seedy mates they could have fired the rockets and killed a few more Jews.
I’ll bet those two ”militants” won’t be shagging 70 virgins tonight eh?
BTW just how stupid do these suicide bombers have to be. Do they really believe that they are going to be given 70 virgins absolutely gagging for it??? I mean really??? Haven’t they managed to work out yet that with all the suicide bombers going to that great bedroom in the sky over the last few years, the entire Middle East has run out of dead virgins for them to hump.
Well it’s obvious that PB is baiting again. I gave him the benefit of the doubt before but now it’s clear he’s just saying this stuff to solicit a response. It’s odd that there’s a section dedicated to serious posts and yet it actually seems dedicated to baiting, trolling and other forms of taking the p1ss. It does seem like a waste of time sometimes.
14 June, 2006 at 11:48 pm #224819Well not necessarily Mr B. I apologise to you for not being an ‘apologist’ for the Palestinian cause and also for perhaps sympathising with the Israeli side of things. You have your view and you’re entitled to it.
I am afraid that I cannot get over excited with the historical aspect of all this. It seems to me that for every fact or argument put forward on one side there seems to be a counter point put on behalf of the other side. Both sides are right and the other side is wrong anyway.
Why did you kill my people today…. because your lot killed my people yesterday…. yes but that was because your lot killed my people the day before and so on and so forth. Well why not just stop killing the other side right now…. well we won’t stop until they do….. yes but they won’t stop until you do…. yes but we won’t stop until………………… etc etc.
Well why not just let them have the land they want which they say is theirs anyway….. because it’s not theirs it’s ours…. but they got there first….. no they didn’t we were there in 200 BC…. no you wern’t, they were there in 500BC…. no they wern’t, we were there in ……etc etc.
So sorry if my posts appear somewhat frivolous Mr B but I lost interest many many years ago in the rights and wrongs of this stupid childish squabble. Neither side is going to give in or accept the other, so my view is to simply let them get on with it and fight each other to the death. Sooner or later one side will slaughter all of the other and matters will no doubt rest there.
I do have a sneaking regard for the Israelis. They don’t ponce about mouthing off about how hard they are. If you mess with them they take you out. This is a language that terrorist murderers seem to understand.
15 June, 2006 at 12:17 am #224820@slayer wrote:
I take issue with Drivel (and Pikey) with reference to the “modern” creation of Palestine as a state.
History clearly lays down the existence of Palestine as part of the Ottoman empire however one of the most famous documents in any nation states history is the “Balfour Declaration” in 1917 which clearly references a Palestinian state in which a jewish home should exist.
Anyone who wishes can google Balfour but the British “controlled” a region known as Palestine and the occupants of that region long before the state of Israel came into being
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/balfour_declaration_of_1917.htm
You’ve missed the point there, I think, Slayer. I reckon the key words in your reply are: state, part of the Ottoman Empire, should and region.
PB’s posts might have been a touch on the sarky side, but they still illustrate their point quite clearly.
As for 1967, Egypt especially had already committed acts of war on the Israelis. Their response was entirely predictable and quite warranted, I would say. Were they supposed to sit and wait to get buggered?
As for the question of who was there first, it seems entirely immaterial to me. Otherwise we would have to concede Great Britain to the Welsh, being the oldest clearly identifiable group. The Scots and the English moved in a long time after there were Jews eating matzoh in Jerusalem and would be honour bound to sod off, according to that logic. A silly diversion, I reckon.
The refugee nature of a large proportion of the modern Israelis is still ignored, I notice. Why is it these people are given less respect in many arguments here than Palestinian refugees? It’s quite right that these people are treated awfully by their hosts, but to say their treatment is done for their own good is surely sophistry.
I think we need to restate our positions, as we are in danger of losing track, I reckon. My ideal solution would be the creation of a proper Palestinian state that recognises the existence of Israel. By electing Hamas, an organisation that has the goal of completely destroying the state of Israel, the Palestinians cannot be surprised that the Israelis will have no truck with their political leaders. Thus, if the Palestinians literally stick to their guns, fighting about it is the only possible outcome. Judging by my reading of modern history, I reckon that course of action will not serve their purpose. Simply put, the Israelis will continue to kick their arses up and down the Negev desert. They’re better soldiers and they have bigger sticks.
A campaign of non-violent civil disobedience and non-cooperation with Israel would be the best way of achieving a stable and prosperous outcome for all parties, I reckon.
15 June, 2006 at 7:12 am #224821it’s probably true quoting the well used – “If the Palestinians laid down their weapons , there would be no more violence . If the Israelis laid down their weapons , there would be no more Israel
We are going round in circles now because – “my history book is bigger and better than your history book “
Obvioulsy Tiler – you read from different perspectives . Muslim , Jewish , neutral – then you form your own opinion
My father fought in WW2 in the Middle East and was there after the war as the Jews returned . He had a deep resentment for the Jews , he never liked them because of the way they treat the Arabs – which he saw first hand . His views on the Jews never changed throughout his life
I base my opinions on what I have viewed through my lifetime15 June, 2006 at 9:42 am #224822I see from the newspapers today that the Palestinians are at it yet again. Not being satisfied with a common enemy (Israel) they have to fight each other as well.
Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority (surely a contradiction in terms) and leader of Fatah and Ismail Hanniyeh leader of Hamas (the admitted terrorist organisation) cannot even now seem to agree on a joint position on Israel.
Fatah wants to enter into some sort of negotiations whereas Hamas refuses to accept the right of Israel to even exist. No chance of a compromise there then. The referendum proposed by Fatah will almost certainly be lost by Hamas, which opposes it, and this will no doubt lead to open civil war.
So in order to make their point of view clear to all, Hamas gunmen have attacked and murdered a number of gunmen from the Fatah dominated Preventative Security force who have retaliated and murdered a Hamas gunman. This week’s score is Hamas 12 Fatah 1.
Maybe the Israelis should supply both sides with enough bullets to kill each other and then the issue will solve itself.
Maenwhile Jaffa oranges enjoy world wide brand recognition and the Palestinians continue to live in their so-called peace camps or terrorist training centres.
15 June, 2006 at 11:02 am #224823And I’ve just been to Soho Sex and bought a Palestinian love doll – apparently it blows itself up !!!
15 June, 2006 at 9:30 pm #224824 -
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