-
Posts
-
@Ow£n Ka$h wrote:
…You clearly don’t care for the Palestinian family who were shelled by the Isreali Army because they were having a picnic on the beach.
Well on digging a little bit further into all this some surprising facts emerge.
It now seems that Israel has been firing hundreds of shells into northern Gaza practically every day. This barrage has been maintained to deter teams of Palestinian militants from firing their home made rockets (known as Quassams) into Israel. It seems that (largely unreported by the Media) dozens of these rockets have hit the Israeli town of Sderot this year alone.
Only last week a Mr Ashkenazi aged 62 and five others were killed by one of these Quassam rockets fired from Northern Gaza.
Some ceasefire eh?
I also wondered why it was that this particular killing should have attracted so much attention from the Media when, for example, Btselem (the Israeli human rights group) has recorded the deaths of over 30 Palestinian civilians in the last few weeks. so why the screams of outrage now??
Well there are suggestions that all may not be as it seems at first glance. Whilst it will undoubtedly be hotly denied by the Palestinian terrorists, it may well be that the Israeli shelling wasn’t inaccurate at all but in fact hit one of their Quassam rockets and exploded its warhead on the beach. It is being said that it was this warhead that caused the ”huge explosion” and killed 7 and injured 40 people.
Palestinian terrorists have a history, if not a tradition, of hiding themselves behind women and children and using them as human shields. It stops the terrorists being hurt and provides great propaganda pictures for the world’s press when the women and children get killed or injured.
Looks like they have got themselves some great press coverage and a perfect excuse to carry on with their avowed aim to rid the world of both the Jewish people and Israel.
So the family having a picnic were secretly hiding missiles in their sandwiches? The Israelis always have some lame excuse to try to justify their killing of unarmed civilians. When Tom Hurndall the british photographer and peace activist was killed by an Israeli sniper the Israeli authorities initially said that he was wearing combat clothes and carrying a rifle. When Iain Hook a british UN official was shot dead by an Israeli soldier the excuse was that he looked like an arab militant carrying a grenade. The fact is that it was the Israelis who used palestinian civilians as human shields when they went house to house during their notorious incursion into the Jenin refugee camp.
Even on the rare occasion when an Israeli soldier is put on trial for murdering civilians they usually escape punishment or at most get a ridiculously short sentence. The killing of palestinian civilians is a regular occurence and there is rarely any punishment for it. The soldier who shot a 13 yr old arab girl 20 times got away with it. The settler who beat a 10 yr old arab boy to death got a fine and community service.
If you look at the background of the militants you’ll see that it’s not an ideological hatred of Jews that inspired them to take up arms, it was their own personal experience of living under Israeli oppression. The first female suicide bomber inside Israel was a paramedic who was traumatized by constantly having to recover the mangled bodies of palestinian children following Israeli attacks. She was also shot by Israeli troops and it was a combination of these factors that pushed her over the edge. There was another bomber who had no involvement in politics or fighting until he saw his cousin blown up in front of his eyes by an Israeli helicopter gunship. I was also reading today about a leading militant who was shot by Israeli soldiers aged 14 while throwing stones, imprisoned by Israel at aged 16, and whose mother and best friends were all killed by Israeli soldiers.
Clearly, the brutality and inhumanity of the occupation is what causes some young Palestinian men to want to kill Israelis. To quote one militant, “When you lose hope, your options are limited….So this is how suicide attacks happen. When people lose hope. When a suicide bomber decides to carry out an attack, he’s fully convinced there is no more hope”
@Mr Bigstuff wrote:
So the family having a picnic were secretly hiding missiles in their sandwiches?
Or alternatively, the Palestinian terrorist murderers were callously preparing yet another Quassam rocket attack and simply didn’t give a damn that there were civilians around them who might be killed if the Israelis spotted them and opened fire before the rocket could be launched. Given their prediliction for camouflaging themselves behind women and children, this seems to be a much more likely scenario.
@Mr Bigstuff wrote:
When a suicide bomber decides to carry out an attack, he’s fully convinced there is no more hope”
Or alternatively he fancies his chances with the 70 virgins as promised by the evil people behind these attacks. Oh and let’s not forget the money that his family will allegedly receive from the Palestinian paymasters if his suicide mission is successful.
Isn’t it strange how the ”leaders” of the Palestinians never go out on suicide missions themselves. They always seem to have an almost inexhaustible supply of disaffected youths culled from several countries (including I believe the UK) ready and willing to kill themselves for the greater glory of Allah.
Yes the youths of Saudi Arabia; Jordan; Syria etc etc have ”no more hope”. Sure they don’t.
It seems to me that Israel, throughout its modern history, has been defined and enlarged as a result of Arab aggression. The Arabs keep losing and then whining about the consequences. If I were them, I’d alter my strategy before things get even worse; come to terms with the existence of Israel, cease all violence and come to a stable resolution at the negotiating table. The whys and wherefores of individual incidents are irrelevant. They need to start from where they are now.
Very true Pikey. All the Arabs do is moan and whinge about how unfair it all is whilst the Jews get on and develop their bit of desert, grow crops build businesses and so on.
Meanwhile the Palestinians continue to live like pigs constantly begging for International financial handouts and blaming everybody but themselves for the mess they’re in.
did anyone mention( cant b botherd to read it all) nothing will ever be done with regards to a permanant piece there because it would mean israel loseing land etc and no us president wants to lose the jewish vote!
@forumhostpb wrote:
Very true Pikey. All the Arabs do is moan and whinge about how unfair it all is whilst the Jews get on and develop their bit of desert, grow crops build businesses and so on.
Meanwhile the Palestinians continue to live like pigs constantly begging for International financial handouts and blaming everybody but themselves for the mess they’re in.
So it’s the Palestinian’s fault that there land is being stolen from them. It’s their fault that they are being persecuted on their own land by a foreign army? I guess the Poles should have stopped moaning in 1939 when the Germans invaded.
The problem here is that you have a typical European colonialist view of the world. You see the Israelis as the good guys because many of them emigrated to the middle east from Europe while you view the dark-skinned arabs as the bad guys for having the audacity to take up arms against their oppressors. It’s like those old cowboy films where the godly cowboys are being terrorized by indian savages. The fact that an entire population is being persecuted and their land is being stolen from them is just an inconvenient side-issue for the land-grabbing propagandists.
It’s all well and good people talking about negotiated peace deals but which side is refusing to negotiate? It’s the Israelis. Which side has refused to accept the “road map” in its entirety with no preconditions? The Israelis. Also ask yourselves why Olmert has dismissed the idea of a palestinian referendum on the recognition of Israel? It’s because the Israeli government doesn’t really want to conduct meaningful negotiations. They don’t want to see a total end to the occupation of Arab land.
The mandate that created Israel also proposed an Arab state next door to Israel. If you accept that Israel has a right to exist then you must also believe in the creation of a Palestinian state on the West bank. Furthermore, considering the Palestinians have certain inalienable rights under international law how can anyone try to defend their persecution? Either you believe in international law or you don’t and if you don’t then what makes you any better than the people that you condemn? The bottom line is that collective punishment is illegal so there is no justification in depriving people of their human rights due to the actions of militant groups. State terror is no better than militant terror, in fact it’s often more deadly.
@Mr Bigstuff wrote:
……It’s all well and good people talking about negotiated peace deals but which side is refusing to negotiate?
I was idly listening to a news programme this evening when my ears pricked up to hear that Hamas was refusing to get involved in or support the latest referendum in Palestine organised by the Palestinian Authority – note NOTHING to do with Israel OK? their leadership made this decision all by themselves.
Apparently it was said that the reason was that they were pretty certain to lose (they oppose ANY form of recognition of Israel). Interesting eh???
Also it appears that the palestinian arabs are once again fighting each other. Armed gangs from ”Hamas” are shooting it out with armed gangs from ”Islamic Jihad”. So far they have each attacked the other’s headquarters as well as the Palestinian Government buildings and so on and so forth. I expect that they will once again blame the Jews for this and will no doubt have a press photo call to view all the dead bodies.
Christ you can’t leave this lot alone for a moment before they start shooting at each other. Why don’t they stick to murdering Jewish women and children – they’re pretty good at doing that.
:-s I don’t think there’s any need for the hyperbole. Individuals are responsible for the murdering and killing, on both sides, not entire societies. Otherwise the whole of Germany should have gone to the gallows in 1945.
I do disagree that the Palestinians are in a similar situation to the Poles in 1939, though. Most of the major Israeli expansions have happened due to failed Arab military aggression in 1948, 1967 and 1973. In my view, Israel has shown restraint in not annexing the land. They haven’t nicked bits of Palestine, they’ve nicked bits of former Jordanian, Egyptian and Syrian territory. Remember, there has not been anything resembling a Palestinian state for many centuries, having previously been partitioned between the surrounding Arab states and before that part of the Ottoman Empire. An independent, free Palestine is a newer idea than the state of Israel itself, especially in and amongst its brotherly, wailing with the unfairness of it all, Arab neighbours. I reckon much of the blame lies with the previous attitudes of the surrounding Arab states in refusing to countenance a plan for the establishment of a Palestinian state that did not also include the destruction of Israel.
Also, when considering refugees, I reckon it is important to remember that a good proportion of Israelis are themselves refugees, driven out of newly independent Arab nations after the Second World War. None of this is one sided, and we do the issue a disservice, I think, in pretending otherwise.
As for the idea that it is all some big, international Jewish conspiracy, I’ve heard that somewhere before, I’m sure. :-k
The Israelis have taken Palestinian land because the West Bank was not part of Jordan it was part of Palestine. Jordanian forces moved into the area during one of the conflicts. The “green line” was established in 1949 I think and that is the recognized boundary for the state of Israel. The annexation of the West Bank is illegal and violates the 4th Geneva convention (the one that relates to the protection of civilians).
The British and the US state department during the time of the British mandate in Palestine opposed the creation of a Jewish state there because they foresaw endless years of bloodshed if that were to happen. President Truman, however, laughed off these warnings thinking they were over-the-top and gave his full support to the zionist movement.
People talk about the aggression of the Arab states towards Israel but put yourself in their shoes. If someone suddenly told you that they were going to take a huge chunk of your land and build a Jewish state without consulting you or anything like that, how would you react? People constantly whine about immigration in this country but imagine if a huge chunk of this country was going to be taken to build a new country mostly for foreigners? Would there be a war? I suspect so.
Of course Hamas opposes the referendum because they don’t want to be forced into recognizing Israel while getting nothing in return. They have said though that they would be willing to make a peace deal with Israel if there was an end to the occupation. However the Palestinian president who is a member of Fatah does recognize the state of Israel and there is absolutely no reason why the Israeli government should refuse to talk to him.
People should also remember that militants are not just islamic extremists. There are Christians, and there are left-wing secular groups too. The Israelis don’t differentiate between Palestinian Christians and Palestinian Muslims, all Palestinians face DAILY persecution. Nelson Mandela has compared the Palestinian situation to the apartheid system. Also, one survivor of the Warsaw ghetto saw similiarities in the suffering of ordinary Palestinians and the suffering that he and his own people went through.
I’ve just heard that 9 more innocent Palestinians were killed today by an Israeli missile that strayed off target. It’s a disgrace that for so long the USA have allowed Israel to carry out war crimes and deprive innocent civilians of their basic human rights. History will vindicate the Palestinian liberation struggle just as it has vindicated all other national liberation movements over the centuries.
Get involved in this discussion! Log in or register now to have your say!