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Posting one shiny graph might attract the magpies, but without context, it is nothing worth taking any notice off.
I could have posted many, all showing the same conclusion. Mooosey very kindly posted a different graph showing the same results. If you choose to disregard the Lancet article, that’s your prerogative.
You blatantly lied that the graph is based on equal units and is Lancet research.
Anybody can send in their research to the Lancet and if it is deemed interesting the editor will decide or not, whether to publish it.
You can’t explain the findings of the research, because you don’t understand the methodology applied.
“The authors point out that the model’s weightings, though based on judgment, were analysed and found to be stable as large changes would be needed to change the overall rankings.” Explain what that gobbledegook means, you posted it and therefore must know?
Still waiting. In your own time Alfie?
You’re calling it gobbledegook? does that mean you don’t understand it? I bet you will suddenly understand it now I give you an explanation.
The authors are saying that, after analysis, the findings in the graph are very stable, only large changes could make a difference in the rankings. As no large changes are expected there fore the findings are “found to be stable”
Ive never pushed heroin or alcohol on my kids, not underage or otherwise.
I dont really understand why this is still going on tbh lol
I also didnt allow my young underage children to have sex with men old enough to know better.
What normal parent wants their underage child to take drugs or booze or have sex????
Id still rather my 15 year old had three vodka and cokes at a family party (if they were to have any at all, they never did but i digress) than to have sex with someone older than they are and illegally or have sex full stop. AND I CONFIRM YET AGAIN 3 DRINKS NOT TEN AND NO CHASING NO DRAGONS OR THE SMOKING OF ANY CRACK.
Id not want my young underage daughter or son be used by some dirty old pervert who has to pick on someone underage because a real woman/man of their own age probably wouldnt touch them with a barge pole.
Underage sex is illegal, drugs are illegal.
WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE ABUSED/BROUGHT UP SEXUALISED AS CHILDREN/YOUNG ADULTS??? – THEY OFTEN END UP WITH DRUGS/ALCOHOL ISSUES!!!!!!!!!!!!
I rest my case, yet again.
Nevermind the bollox?
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This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by
Sairs73.
The authors are saying that, after analysis, the findings in the graph are very stable, only large changes could make a difference in the rankings. As no large changes are expected there fore the findings are “found to be stable”
They are not saying that at all. Explain what specific “weightings” and judgment” were applied. Explain what that means in technical terms. You posted it, you must know, the onus is on you, not me.
Stop trying to baffle people with bullshit.
In your own time.
Ive never pushed heroin or alcohol on my kids, not underage or otherwise. I dont really understand why this is still going on tbh lol I also didnt allow my young underage children to have sex with men old enough to know better. What normal parent wants their underage child to take drugs or booze or have sex????…..Nevermind the bollox?
Well done. My guess is that very few people do, but it’s good news that you haven’t allowed your children to become crack addicts or meat for trafficking.
The reason that this is going on is the silly games mr bollox is playing with graphs.
Mooosey issued a graph and explained it very clearly to show the complexities of the relationship between heroin and alcohol danger. She showed the methodology used, and explained the limited availability of heroin compared to alcohol.
A fatal move, ms Mooosey, when playing with mr Bollox.
Alfie hasn’t shown why she’s wrong, he just plays on the complexity to claim that she agrees with him. No discussion of methodology, availability or complexity, because that is no fun.
He can play these games forever. Graphs and tables are a gift for gameplayers like him.
The games are worthless.
Enter alfie’s game and you don’t get out.
what a load of bollox, mr bollox.
Mooosey issued a graph and explained it very clearly to show the complexities of the relationship between heroin and alcohol danger. She showed the methodology used, and explained the limited availability of heroin compared to alcohol. A fatal move, ms Mooosey, when playing with mr Bollox.
Moose gave a brilliant explanation of an extremely complex subject. My issue is Alfie point blank lied that both crack cocaine and heroin is less harmful than alcohol solely based on his silly graph. The graph per se might not be silly, but his interpretation is. This is exactly why gullible kids try both those drugs in the first place.
Without the relevant information the findings on graph can’t be challenged and so rigorously tested. That is my point.
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I came back to find out what the red-herring was only to find the thread has moved on somewhat since then.
No matter – I shall still add my two penneth worth about graphgate.
So…I’ve looked at it a bit. When you say alcohol is more harmful than drugs – are you talking about harm to others or harm to the user? I can only assume that as there has been mention of a couple of vodkas, we’re talking about harm to the ‘user’ or individual. The graph itself is clearly broken down in to those constituent parts.
From what I can see, if you’re looking at most harmful to others (as per the legend on the graph) then yes, your statement true. However, if you’re talking about harm to the ‘user’ (see example above), I think any of the next 3 romp into the lead.
And Ge…following a meeting today, CPS no longer have targets. They how have ‘anticipated levels of achievement’. Why use one word when you can use four!
Actually……….. apols in advance as this may be a long one ( bet you all wish I was back at work ) .
As I mentioned earlier, I have worked with addicts both of substance abuse and alcohol. I am not an expert, but worked with many different categories of patients over the years coz I’m old
In a way Mr ILOVEAGRAPH is in fact correct. Technically and medically speaking Heroin is not particularly harmful…wait wait….. here me out. Both Cocaine and Heroin are used often in a medical environment. The problem is when it isn’t used in a controlled way. It is fact that many Doctors, Surgeons, etc are addicted to opiates. The difference is they have access to them and know what dose, sterility, other conditions are needed and what to avoid. Not long ago a well loved anaesthetist I knew died his bath. No one was aware but he had become addicted to fentanyl, he had started self medicating due to chronic back pain which stopped him from working. He was a brilliant doctor, approachable, kind hearted, and with a lovely family, although no full explanation, heart attack was mentioned, but it was more than likely respiratory arrest, he slowed his heart rate too much and got in a hot bath which also reduces blood pressure, and he fell asleep and stopped breathing, this was someone who knew what he was doing !! The Dangers of heroin is when its taken by a kid, who gets told its not addictive, it IS THE MOST ADDICTIVE DRUG, unlike alcohol ! No access, unaffordable, spend any money on it not to feel so wretched, therefore not eating properly, no where to live, no decent hygiene, that’s what’s happened when you see the ” homeless druggy” on the street. They didn’t chose that way of life, they made a bad choice, somewhere on someone’s mantelpiece there is a picture of a fresh faced kid, butter wouldn’t melt, with their whole lives ahead of them, and 20 years later, if you stripped them and shaved their heads they would look like survivors from a concentration camp. Add on dirty clothes etc and you have your spat upon druggie. And there is hardly any help. Some go on to methadone, also known as liquid handcuffs, they have to go everyday for their dose. How can you get a job when you have to go to a chemist everyday? and on and on …. although you would be surprised how many people do take methadone and have done for years, teachers, solicitors, from all walks of life, once you’ve been on it a few years they let you have tablet form, before that there is a danger they will sell the tablets to get the real deal ,anyone who has access to patient records will confirm this .. and btw coming off Methadone is technically harder than heroin and is a very long slow process. With Heroin, every time they go with out they get terribly sick and their bodies take a battering, over and over it takes its toll.. With alcohol you can get shitfaced and not touch a drop again, till maybe the weekend
With Heroin you don’t get that chance. Yes I’m aware of Alcoholic’s having similar issues I do not dispute how dreadful that can be, but to me you have more of a chance to help yourself, basically you don’t feel you may die, LITERALLY DIE, if you don’t get a fix within hours, not unless you’ve been an alcoholic for years and are just topping up daily. Anyway, that’s why I feel Heroin is a far more dangerous drug, because of the havoc and despair it brings SO QUICKLY.Sorry
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And Ge…following a meeting today, CPS no longer have targets. They how have ‘anticipated levels of achievement’. Why use one word when you can use four!
Thanks. I guess the Windrush scandal is now altering the “language” politicians and the powers to be use.
Oh Mr Nuttall of graphgate gets a mention here
”Many factors determine whether you’ll become addicted to a drug: your genetic makeup, social history, the drugs your friends take, how much money you make. But the chemical makeup of drugs guarantee that certain drugs are more addictive than others. The hardest ones to kick—heroin, for instance—actually train your brain to crave them. A team of researchers led by professor David Nutt of London’s Imperial College recently set out to determine which drugs were most harmful based on their addictive properties (the resulting article suggested that alcohol and tobacco are more harmful than cannabis and ecstasy, and led to Nutt getting sacked as the UK’s top drug adviser). ”
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This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by
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