Germany to win the world cup

The qualification of terms that defines a World Cup team is political……due to the time that the game was invented etc…….Isn’t it the UK that has changed it’s name the most though?…..England…Great Britain…..UK…..Brexit isle….LOL

If, England beat Columbia and do it convincingly it would not surprise me in the least if they go all the way. Sadly for me, England is like a girlfriend you keep going back to but who keeps breaking your heart and in the end you give it up as a lost cause.

On a side note brilliant to see the England flag flown proudly everywhere and for the right reasons!

Come on Ireland!

rudeboy wrote:

The class is permanent argument is illogical as if it was , 4 time winners Italy would be sweeping all before them, Germany would have beaten korea and former European champions Aston villa/ notts forest wouldn’t be kicking around the English second tier playing Burton albion now would they. In a team game like football, “class” is only as good as your current squad and bearing in mind the grand total of one player started Brazils last match who played in the world cup final, making comparisons talking of revenge is a bit silly.

Class is associated with pedigree. Horse Racing being a very good example.
Class and form can and do often go hand in hand.

Class / pedigree, on its own, in sport, needs form. Frankel’s off spring, as classy as they maybe are not guaranteed to be Derby winners.

Not all the classy youths at Man Utd, Barcelona, Chelsea will be superstars.

The classier the teams the more likely the better current form.
You are mistaking class for form.

Germany didn’t go out because they lack class, because they lack form

rudeboy wrote:

The class is permanent argument is illogical

Why do Frankel’s off spring sell for millions? Why will one of Frankel’s offspring that never even races sell for millions, maybe even more than Frankel’s?
Why would a Barcelona player sell for a lot more than a Wolves player would, even though he’s maybe no better.
The Queen has class. It is permanent. Her class will be discussed for centuries yet. She will not lose her class by not being the Queen anymore.

rudeboy wrote:

4 time winners Italy would be sweeping all before them,

Why would they? They would need much better current form for that. What about 4 time winners (West) Germany and 5 times winners Brazil.

rudeboy wrote:

Germany would have beaten korea

Yes they would have done if they had better current form. Germany didnt go out because they lack class, because they lack form

rudeboy wrote:

European champions Aston villa/ notts forest wouldn’t be kicking around the English second tier playing Burton albion now would they.

As far as second tier teams go, they don’t get much Classier than Villa and Forest, except maybe Leeds. Unfortunately they have lost their form of yesteryears, although Villa are bouncing back, because they are too classy for that division. Their class becomes all the more apparent when they lose form and drop a division and have to go to Burton, or Germany lose to Korea, it is remarkable, hence us discussing it now. You don’t see Queen Liz queuing up at Burger King very often.

In horse racing, a horse must have a certain class of group wins to even enter certain races. Not just any old donkey can enter the Derby. Big Races are often won by very shrewd trainers who knows the current form of his horse, but wont let you know, by not racing him, much or at all. Many very classy unknown horses win big races, as well as the in form horse.

rudeboy wrote:

In a team game like football, “class” is only as good as your current squad

Not quite. In a team game like football “class” is related to form, and the form of the previous squads that have hopefully instilled some class. Man Utd has class today because of the work of previous generations, Bobby Charlton Brian Robson Giggs etc. They will not lose that class by not winning anything for a few years, or employing a second rate Bulgarian goalkeeper.

rudeboy wrote:

bearing in mind the grand total of one player started Brazils last match who played in the world cup final, making comparisons talking of revenge is a bit silly.

I think this can go through the “spirit” of the team, as it does in say a Derby match, or grudge matches, that last decades, and longer than any squad could. Some derby matches don’t happen often so it will be a new team for the next one, the sense of revenge is unlikely to diminish, the intensity, grudge, feeling of revenge persists through generations of squads, it probably evolves too.

Would it be a “bit silly” to expect Wolves to turn up for a Derby grudge with WBA and want revenge if they only had one remaining player from a 7-1 drubbibg? I think not.

(substitute Wolves v WBA, for Celtic v Rangers if you like, or Millwall v West Ham)

God Help Cardiff City the next time we get hold of them :)

• This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by  Morgan..

Morgan. wrote:

rudeboy wrote:

The class is permanent argument is illogical as if it was , 4 time winners Italy would be sweeping all before them, Germany would have beaten korea and former European champions Aston villa/ notts forest wouldn’t be kicking around the English second tier playing Burton albion now would they. In a team game like football, “class” is only as good as your current squad and bearing in mind the grand total of one player started Brazils last match who played in the world cup final, making comparisons talking of revenge is a bit silly.

Class is associated with pedigree. Horse Racing being a very good example.

Class and form can and do often go hand in hand.

Class / pedigree, on its own, in sport, needs form. Frankel’s off spring, as classy as they maybe are not guaranteed to be Derby winners.

Not all the classy youths at Man Utd, Barcelona, Chelsea will be superstars.

The classier the teams the more likely the better current form.

You are mistaking class for form.

Germany didn’t go out because they lack class, because they lack form

rudeboy wrote:

The class is permanent argument is illogical

Why do Frankel’s off spring sell for millions? Why will one of Frankel’s offspring that never even races sell for millions, maybe even more than Frankel’s?

Why would a Barcelona player sell for a lot more than a Wolves player would, even though he’s maybe no better.

The Queen has class. It is permanent. Her class will be discussed for centuries yet. She will not lose her class by not being the Queen anymore.

rudeboy wrote:

4 time winners Italy would be sweeping all before them,

Why would they? They would need much better current form for that. What about 4 time winners (West) Germany and 5 times winners Brazil.

rudeboy wrote:

Germany would have beaten korea

Yes they would have done if they had better current form. Germany didnt go out because they lack class, because they lack form

rudeboy wrote:

European champions Aston villa/ notts forest wouldn’t be kicking around the English second tier playing Burton albion now would they.

As far as second tier teams go, they don’t get much Classier than Villa and Forest, except maybe Leeds. Unfortunately they have lost their form of yesteryears, although Villa are bouncing back, because they are too classy for that division. Their class becomes all the more apparent when they lose form and drop a division and have to go to Burton, or Germany lose to Korea, it is remarkable, hence us discussing it now. You don’t see Queen Liz queuing up at Burger King very often.

In horse racing, a horse must have a certain class of group wins to even enter certain races. Not just any old donkey can enter the Derby. Big Races are often won by very shrewd trainers who knows the current form of his horse, but wont let you know, by not racing him, much or at all. Many very classy unknown horses win big races, as well as the in form horse.

rudeboy wrote:

In a team game like football, “class” is only as good as your current squad

Not quite. In a team game like football “class” is related to form, and the form of the previous squads that have hopefully instilled some class. Man Utd has class today because of the work of previous generations, Bobby Charlton Brian Robson Giggs etc. They will not lose that class by not winning anything for a few years, or employing a second rate Bulgarian goalkeeper.

rudeboy wrote:

bearing in mind the grand total of one player started Brazils last match who played in the world cup final, making comparisons talking of revenge is a bit silly.

I think this can go through the “spirit” of the team, as it does in say a Derby match, or grudge matches, that last decades, and longer than any squad could. Some derby matches don’t happen often so it will be a new team for the next one, the sense of revenge is unlikely to diminish, the intensity, grudge, feeling of revenge persists through generations of squads, it probably evolves too.

Would it be a “bit silly” to expect Wolves to turn up for a Derby grudge with WBA and want revenge if they only had one remaining player from a 7-1 drubbibg? I think not.

(substitute Wolves v WBA, for Celtic v Rangers if you like, or Millwall v West Ham)

God Help Cardiff City the next time we get hold of them :)

You contradict yourself, you say class is permanent yet clearly not as we have seen from germany/Italy…what horse racing offspring has got to do with it, I’ve no idea unless you are implying the current brazil team are related to past ones as long lost sons?

Theres an old adage in football, you are only as good as your last match – this class debate is irrelevant to who wins a football match , ask Germany.

If you think villa are” bouncing back” you don’t watch much football with the club owing millions to the tax man having to sell their entire team- hardly bouncing back.

Arguing class in a game of booting a ball about is melodramatic ..its a simple sport, the ” classier ” clubs afford better players so it boils down to if the squad is good enough or not.

1 member liked this post.

Morgan.

To summarise:

Form is temporary, Leicester, Iceland, South Korea.

Class is permanent. Liverpool, ManUtd, Brazil, Barcelona.