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Posts
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@pete wrote:
Foxes do not need controlling though they dont need gassing or shooting, if fox hunting is strictly “pest” control why did the Isle of Wight import foxes to hunt ? A sheep is more than a match for a fox, it’s killing for killings sake, it does nothing to keep the numbers down
Foxes are not only clever they are opportunists, and to see a half ripped apart lamb while a ewe is giving birth i wouldnt say that is fair odds, as a rle its poultry and young lambs that foxes take and brutally massacre others when taking one for themselves thats where the issue often lies, and a day old lamb isnt any match, and foxes are way to quick for most sheep.
But they dont need controlling, no one ever gives any facts as to why they need any form of control just simply states its needed. It’s an excuse to justify barbarism and it’s illegal. Given this is a democracy and the majority want hunting banned then banning is right and proper
@(f)politics? wrote:
@pete wrote:
Foxes do not need controlling though they dont need gassing or shooting, if fox hunting is strictly “pest” control why did the Isle of Wight import foxes to hunt ? A sheep is more than a match for a fox, it’s killing for killings sake, it does nothing to keep the numbers down
Foxes are not only clever they are opportunists, and to see a half ripped apart lamb while a ewe is giving birth i wouldnt say that is fair odds, as a rle its poultry and young lambs that foxes take and brutally massacre others when taking one for themselves thats where the issue often lies, and a day old lamb isnt any match, and foxes are way to quick for most sheep.
and the main reason for lamb mortality is poor husbandry, less than 5% of lamb deaths are down to animals and that includes dog attacks.
Foxes are not significant predators of farm livestock
•Foxes are highly adaptable and live mostly on earthworms, rodents, rabbits and carrion. For this reason foxes are of positive benefit to most farmers.
•Foxes are expert scavengers which is why they have been so effective in establishing urban fox populations. Foxes will prey on ground nesting birds but rarely on lambs.
•Post-mortem evidence has demonstrated that lambs taken by foxes are likely to be either already dead or weak, non viable lambs.•According to MAFF, predation of foxes on lambs is nationally ‘insignificant’. Studies show that lamb losses are between 10% and 24% from hypothermia, malnutrition or disease, but even sheep farmers only claim that only 0.5% are due to foxes.
Hunting does not control fox populations•Hunts kill around 20,000 foxes a year, but this is only 3% of the fox population.
•The fox population is governed by the year round availability of food in defended territories.
•Where foxes are persecuted by humans more cubs are produced to restore their population levels.
•Studies in Europe have shown that fox populations can survive losses of up to 70% and still recover fully in the following year.
•Where foxes are killed this merely created a vacant territory which will be quickly filled by other foxes.
@pete wrote:
But they dont need controlling, no one ever gives any facts as to why they need any form of control just simply states its needed. It’s an excuse to justify barbarism and it’s illegal. Given this is a democracy and the majority want hunting banned then banning is right and proper
I have given a few reasons why they need controlling the main one being disease as well as the pointless massacre of livestock, and the 5% u talk of i have no idea if those stats are true but 5% of a farmers stock can be a difference between ruin and not. Some farmers infact many make little more than that profit each year, and no it isnt poor husbandry at all ffs, thats like saying well my wifes due to give birth sometime in the next month so lets not let her leave the room until after she has, it can happen at any time, and as hard working as farmers are including getting up in the middle of the night during lambing season and aiding the sheep with problem births they cannot watch them 24/7.
I for one would be more than happy to scent hunt rather than fox hunt as i am an animal lover and i think they are beautiful creatures, but they DO need managing and it is the as so far as been proved the most effective and natural and indeed fair way to do it, i dont want to have healthy young foxes shot gassed or trapped, but the diseased and they carry plenty, and the old and infirm are the ones that a hunt catches and the ones that are usually responsible for most farmyard massacres also. The young and fit just dont get caught or atleast extremely rarely, and that is FACT. No stats actual FACT.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrOGhk-ehRo
quick death my arse
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-862586154091165213#
they go to earth they’re safe ?
How anyone can condone that sort of thing is beyond me, mans arrogance in the belief they can do whatever they like astounds and disgusts me at times
@(f)politics? wrote:
@pete wrote:
But they dont need controlling, no one ever gives any facts as to why they need any form of control just simply states its needed. It’s an excuse to justify barbarism and it’s illegal. Given this is a democracy and the majority want hunting banned then banning is right and proper
I have given a few reasons why they need controlling the main one being disease as well as the pointless massacre of livestock, and the 5% u talk of i have no idea if those stats are true but 5% of a farmers stock can be a difference between ruin and not. Some farmers infact many make little more than that profit each year, and no it isnt poor husbandry at all ffs, thats like saying well my wifes due to give birth sometime in the next month so lets not let her leave the room until after she has, it can happen at any time, and as hard working as farmers are including getting up in the middle of the night during lambing season and aiding the sheep with problem births they cannot watch them 24/7.
I for one would be more than happy to scent hunt rather than fox hunt as i am an animal lover and i think they are beautiful creatures, but they DO need managing and it is the as so far as been proved the most effective and natural and indeed fair way to do it, i dont want to have healthy young foxes shot gassed or trapped, but the diseased and they carry plenty, and the old and infirm are the ones that a hunt catches and the ones that are usually responsible for most farmyard massacres also. The young and fit just dont get caught or atleast extremely rarely, and that is FACT. No stats actual FACT.•According to MAFF, predation of foxes on lambs is nationally ‘insignificant’. Studies show that lamb losses are between 10% and 24% from hypothermia, malnutrition or disease, but even sheep farmers only claim that only 0.5% are due to foxes.
@pete wrote:
Foxes are not significant predators of farm livestock
•Foxes are highly adaptable and live mostly on earthworms, rodents, rabbits and carrion. For this reason foxes are of positive benefit to most farmers.
i agree with that, as i have said its the older diseased foxes that cant catch this kind of prey that are a problem to a farmer
•Foxes are expert scavengers which is why they have been so effective in establishing urban fox populations. Foxes will prey on ground nesting birds but rarely on lambs.
•Post-mortem evidence has demonstrated that lambs taken by foxes are likely to be either already dead or weak, non viable lambs.
Not the case, and even if a lamb is weak doesnt mean it is non viable and as previously stated its not the odd lamb its the unnecessary massacre of others just for one lamb•According to MAFF, predation of foxes on lambs is nationally ‘insignificant’. Studies show that lamb losses are between 10% and 24% from hypothermia, malnutrition or disease, but even sheep farmers only claim that only 0.5% are due to foxes.
Hunting does not control fox populations
Hunting actually helps fox population which is why rural fox numbers have declined because of disease not being controlled•Hunts kill around 20,000 foxes a year, but this is only 3% of the fox population.
Agreed again as i said controlling the old and diseased only•The fox population is governed by the year round availability of food in defended territories.
•Where foxes are persecuted by humans more cubs are produced to restore their population levels.
•Studies in Europe have shown that fox populations can survive losses of up to 70% and still recover fully in the following year.
•Where foxes are killed this merely created a vacant territory which will be quickly filled by other foxes.
Yes, hopefully young healthy fit onesMost hunts don’t randomly go out and start scenting yunno, they are approached by farmers that have “problem foxes” this is where a hunt will start
@pete wrote:
@(f)politics? wrote:
@pete wrote:
But they dont need controlling, no one ever gives any facts as to why they need any form of control just simply states its needed. It’s an excuse to justify barbarism and it’s illegal. Given this is a democracy and the majority want hunting banned then banning is right and proper
I have given a few reasons why they need controlling the main one being disease as well as the pointless massacre of livestock, and the 5% u talk of i have no idea if those stats are true but 5% of a farmers stock can be a difference between ruin and not. Some farmers infact many make little more than that profit each year, and no it isnt poor husbandry at all ffs, thats like saying well my wifes due to give birth sometime in the next month so lets not let her leave the room until after she has, it can happen at any time, and as hard working as farmers are including getting up in the middle of the night during lambing season and aiding the sheep with problem births they cannot watch them 24/7.
I for one would be more than happy to scent hunt rather than fox hunt as i am an animal lover and i think they are beautiful creatures, but they DO need managing and it is the as so far as been proved the most effective and natural and indeed fair way to do it, i dont want to have healthy young foxes shot gassed or trapped, but the diseased and they carry plenty, and the old and infirm are the ones that a hunt catches and the ones that are usually responsible for most farmyard massacres also. The young and fit just dont get caught or atleast extremely rarely, and that is FACT. No stats actual FACT.•According to MAFF, predation of foxes on lambs is nationally ‘insignificant’. Studies show that lamb losses are between 10% and 24% from hypothermia, malnutrition or disease, but even sheep farmers only claim that only 0.5% are due to foxes.
That National insignificance may mean nothing to some farmers to those struggling its very significant
Not as significant as hypothermia it seems though they dont seem to want to do anything about that probably because they have to spend money rather than generate it from hunting. It’s wrong it’s cruel and it’s banned
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