For Martin

@jen_jen wrote:

I am not a vegetarian; I have always known and have now had it confirmed by a clinical nutritionist that I need some meat in my diet, a minimum of 2 to 3 times a week. Having said that, I try to ensure that the meat is as ethically sourced as possible with the minimum suffering to the animal.

The Aborigines, who are credited with discovering the medicinal properties of emu oil, the Native Americans and many other indigenous groups had a similar view to animals. Only take what you need, i.e. don’t kill for the fun of it; give thanks to the animal for giving it’s life so that you can be fed and clothed; use as much of the animal as you can out of respect to the sacrifice the animal has made. I like that approach. And I would prefer the products that I use to make it clear what’s in them, not hide it in some gobbledegook list of ingredients in tiny lettering that you need a magnifying glass to read.

But perhaps that’s just me. :wink:

Ok…here’s my story … I am no longer a vegetarian due to a medical condition, I have developed an intollerance to pulses, yeast, gluten, lactose (think celiac), so I have to get my protein intake elsewhere (mostly fish), but still fight for animal rights as much as I can….and avoid (as much as possible) buying products tested on animals.
As far as the Aborigines are concerned, I could actually agree with what you posted, what they’re doing now though, is no longer a need, they’ve made a business out of it .
Animals are now being raised and exploited for this purpose.
I also prefer that the products sold make it clear what they contain, so I can decide whether or not to buy them.

@blossom‘ wrote:

@sceptical guy wrote:

Clear arguments being presented here.

Like, Kenty, I’m not an animal lover, but I don’t like to see animals in pain, or killed.

But when human pain can be eased, I see animals as coming second.

Blossom, why shouldn’t animals be killed if human pain can be reduced? I don’t understand why animals should be as important as human beings (that doesn’t mean that animals shouldn’t be well-cared for, or cruelty to animals punished)??

All living beings feel pain, the same as humans do, I don’t see why they should suffer for the sake of science/to reduce our pain, they’re not the ones with the ailments, after all.

I was talking about killing animals. I specifically said I was against cruelty to animals. And the reason was not for ‘the sake o0f science’ but to reduce human suffering.

I assume you agree, as you eat animals to avoid a serious illness. That means you have animals killed – in practice, mass slaughter (assuming the animals are dead before you eat them lol).

I knew someone who kept a goat as his best friend, then killed it to eat. He said that it was ethical as he had befriended the goat. I made sure not to become his friend, just in case I ended up on his table.

@sceptical guy wrote:

@blossom‘ wrote:

@sceptical guy wrote:

Clear arguments being presented here.

Like, Kenty, I’m not an animal lover, but I don’t like to see animals in pain, or killed.

But when human pain can be eased, I see animals as coming second.

Blossom, why shouldn’t animals be killed if human pain can be reduced? I don’t understand why animals should be as important as human beings (that doesn’t mean that animals shouldn’t be well-cared for, or cruelty to animals punished)??

All living beings feel pain, the same as humans do, I don’t see why they should suffer for the sake of science/to reduce our pain, they’re not the ones with the ailments, after all.

I was talking about killing animals. I specifically said I was against cruelty to animals. And the reason was not for ‘the sake o0f science’ but to reduce human suffering.

I assume you agree, as you eat animals to avoid a serious illness. That means you have animals killed – in practice, mass slaughter (assuming the animals are dead before you eat them lol).

I knew someone who kept a goat as his best friend, then killed it to eat. He said that it was ethical as he had befriended the goat. I made sure not to become his friend, just in case I ended up on his table.

I’m sorry, I have to laugh at the last part of your post :lol:
Again, I dont see why animals should be raised to reduce our suffering, there are other ways to reduce it, we’re doing enough harm as it is by killing them for survival.
What I’m saying here is we’re exploiting them more and more.
Apparently I could also benefit from emu oil (from what I’ve read about it), but I don’t use it due to my beliefs, as I’m doing enough damage as it is (to living beings) by eating fish … and very rarely meat.

I think the cruelty shown to animals in the world has been a mark of humasn insensitivity to other human beings too. All sorts of laws have been passed against animal cruelty, yet it still takes place.

But. Blossom, I also think that there are circumstances where animals may have to suffer to relieve human suffering..I say this as I’m a human and not a mouse (no comments form my many fans here, please).

But I noticed in today’s news that experiments on mice have been crucial in reaching what is seen as a turning point in the fight against Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, Huntingdon’s etc – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-24462699

it doesn’t sound as though the tests increased their suffering, though the news doesn’t really look at what happened to the mice.

But I’ve known several people now with the first two of those diseases, and also had to look after a teenage girl developing the third, and they are terrible illnesses. One woman I know told me only a couple of months ago that she felt as though she was like Canute, sweeping back the tides.

To me, if animal suffering helped, I would give the go-ahead. Those are my values – humans come before animals.

Removed by me

Blossom