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Posts
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@mrs_teapot wrote:
One thing that seemed odd to me when I read the newspaper article… the mother stated that she had concerns when he liked his long blonde hair putting in a pony tail or pigtails… I did wonder why her little boy had long blonde hair? and also if she had concerns why she agreed to style it in girly styles for him?
I agree Panda, something not right about it.
Based on those doubts I think the worst thing possible would be surgery… its not possible right now to establish what the little guy would want for himself as an adult…. Im not sure what the answer is…. but certainly not surgery..
Like I said, munchausen syndrome by proxy.
I agree that surgery is not the answer, but the only other alternative IMHO is one seriously fooked up kid come puberty time and beyond.
It’s interesting that the age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10 as kids under that age are not considered mature enough to know the difference between right and wrong.
From here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/dec/13/age-criminal-responsibility-brain-scientists
“…the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for decision-making, impulse control and cognitive control, is among the slowest parts of the brain to mature and is not fully developed until around the age of 20.”
So how can a five year old be able to take the decision that they are the wrong gender?
My customer said that he knew at the age of 3 that he was a girl, he couldn’t understand why everyone was treating him as a boy when he was a girl.
There’s a difference between making a decision and a “knowing”.
As for the parents having munchausen syndrome by proxy, 2 things come to mind
1. it is highly unlikely that BOTH parents would have it.
2. as I understand it this child had been treated by various psychologists etc. since he was very young. The parents didn’t really know what was going on, they assumed it was a phase, it’s the psychologists who came up with the diagnosis. They would probably have been assessed as a family. If the parents did have munchausen syndrome I would guess that the psychologists would have picked up on that.@jen_jen wrote:
My customer said that he knew at the age of 3 that he was a girl, he couldn’t understand why everyone was treating him as a boy when he was a girl.
There’s a difference between making a decision and a “knowing”.
As for the parents having munchausen syndrome by proxy, 2 things come to mind
1. it is highly unlikely that BOTH parents would have it.
2. as I understand it this child had been treated by various psychologists etc. since he was very young. The parents didn’t really know what was going on, they assumed it was a phase, it’s the psychologists who came up with the diagnosis. They would probably have been assessed as a family. If the parents did have munchausen syndrome I would guess that the psychologists would have picked up on that.It’s usually only one parent that has Munchausen’s – and almost always the mother who becomes such a convincing liar and good at covering things up that the father and other family members do not notice.
There’s been a few famous cases of salt poisoning of kids by their mother with the family and doctors totally oblivious to it.
I don’t believe that if the psychologists came up with it, then it must be true. Some psychologists also state a child under the age of 10 is incapable of criminal intent so it would be nice to see some consistency in terms of what exactly 5 and 10 year olds are capable of knowing.
I guess it’s a matter of opinion but I don’t believe that treating this boy as a girl is the right thing to do at such a tender age because I honestly do not think a 5 year old is capable of knowing what is right for them. If they did, parents would have no qualms in leaving them home alone, or letting them out on their own etc.
If he decides in a few years time that he is actually a boy, will the trauma and memories of being a dressed and treated as a girl come back and haunt him? Will he blame his parents for not protecting him from himself?
As for trying to mutilate himself, I ask again, why have his parents allowed their 5 year old son access to such sharp insturments???
He tried to mutilate himself…as a child, he could have tried it with a plastic knife, there’s nothing to suggest that he had access to a sharp knife.
How judgemental we can all be when we have absolutely no idea what it must be like to be in such a situation. :roll:
All I can say, is that I cannot really remember being 5, and I definitely would NOT have any idea what my willy, if I had one, was for, apart from peeing! I think my son was around 10’ish when he realised it could ‘do’ different things, and even then he was a bit confused – yeah, I know, he was quite green if everything you read these days is true!, but even at that age, I would NOT have let him have a sex-change. Thinking about it, I reckon around 15/16/17 would be the right age to seek outside help.
The one thing that really upsets me is that is in the papers FGS! :? The repercussions are going to be enormously psychologically upsetting, whatever the outcome :(
ps. As an afterthought, I wonder if the so called sex-education the government have inflicted on young children is a good or bad thing, but that is another topic really, I doubt this little boy had any at his age. Worth a ponder though, because they are getting it from the age of 7 and I think that is far too young!
@jen_jen wrote:
He tried to mutilate himself…as a child, he could have tried it with a plastic knife, there’s nothing to suggest that he had access to a sharp knife.
How judgemental we can all be when we have absolutely no idea what it must be like to be in such a situation. :roll:
I read this article elsewhere as well where his mother refers to sharp objects. As for being judgemental well yes I am but I also speak from experience as I didn’t know what the hell I wanted at age 5. I don’t even have many memories of that time.
I take it that you are speaking from experience and I am right in assuming that like this 5 year old, you can fully remember all your thoughts and feelings when aged 5 and that you had a clear and mature understanding of all aspects of life and were therefore able to make informed decisions?
its all a bit freaky this. I think of my own grandson of that age and he hits an imaginery contraption on his wrist and turns into another ben 10 monster ! I could dress him head to foot in Fushcia Pink and he wouldnt know the difference , he would think of it as a silly game.But i cannot see him wanting to be a girl and if he even said it, it would be laughed off. i dont know any 5 year olds that discuss gender sexual politics history with their mummys, so i have a feeling Miss panda has maybe touched on something with the Munchausens debate. thing is, this is not as uncommon as it seems, there are many more young children being brought up as the different sex to which they were born. is it another stigma from namby pambyness? och i dunno.
I can remember being 5 actually. I hated school since day 1, and i consoled myself that one dAY I would be the Next Dame Anna Pavlova, tis i pity i met her younger sister Raspberry before i even touched the barre ..
@panda12 wrote:
I take it that you are speaking from experience and I am right in assuming that like this 5 year old, you can fully remember all your thoughts and feelings when aged 5 and that you had a clear and mature understanding of all aspects of life and were therefore able to make informed decisions?
Yes I do have strong memories of thoughts and feelings when I was 5, in fact even earlier than that…you do tend to remember traumatic events even as young as that, and I can replay them in my mind as if I were watching a film of them. I’m told by people that were there that my memory of the events is very accurate and that my reactions at the time were very mature for my age.
Did I have a clear and mature understanding of all aspects of life? Of course not, I’m not even sure I have that now! However I did know what was happening around me and to me, I had an awareness of other people and their feelings and reactions to me, and I knew very clearly what I wanted and how that would impact on others.
For what it’s worth, I don’t buy into the theory that children under the age of 10 is incapable of criminal intent either.
But here’s the question:
Your child tells you that they are the opposite gender of the one they were born into. They are sure enough in their own mind that they become very upset or withdrawn or self-harming when treated as the gender they born into. What do you, as their parent, do? Do you force them to live as the gender they don’t identify with? Do you allow them to live as the gender they believe they are? Or do you allow them to live a gender-neutral life? It doesn’t seem that long ago that there was a thread about parents who were bringing up their child in a gender-free environment, not even telling the grandparents whether the child was male or female as “it shouldn’t matter”. But it does matter; male and female brains are wired up differently, we do approach problems differently, we do have a different learning style, we do interact differently, and our differences should be celebrated, not denied. So, as the parent of such a child, what would you do for the best?I think my concerns are about the child’s ability to reach the decision they are a different gender…. I think the seeds of confusion may have been planted by the mother in this case… maybe it was done unknowingly …
I can only tell you from my own experience… I can say for sure if my little girl had been asked at aged 5 would you prefer to be a little boy the answer would have been an enthusiastic… YES! I say that without a shadow of a doubt.
I dont doubt that nature makes mistakes sometimes and gender confusion must be terrible. But for a child of this age to be so certain of such a complicated condition seems improbable to me….. actually more than improbable.
Your customer Jen who said he knew he was always female.. I have friends who are gay (a different situation I know) who have said I always knew there was something different about me… but thats in retrospect as an adult…. children might feel different but at age five to understand those differences? Sorry… I dont think so.
@jen_jen wrote:
@panda12 wrote:
I take it that you are speaking from experience and I am right in assuming that like this 5 year old, you can fully remember all your thoughts and feelings when aged 5 and that you had a clear and mature understanding of all aspects of life and were therefore able to make informed decisions?
Yes I do have strong memories of thoughts and feelings when I was 5, in fact even earlier than that…you do tend to remember traumatic events even as young as that, and I can replay them in my mind as if I were watching a film of them. I’m told by people that were there that my memory of the events is very accurate and that my reactions at the time were very mature for my age.
Did I have a clear and mature understanding of all aspects of life? Of course not, I’m not even sure I have that now! However I did know what was happening around me and to me, I had an awareness of other people and their feelings and reactions to me, and I knew very clearly what I wanted and how that would impact on others.
For what it’s worth, I don’t buy into the theory that children under the age of 10 is incapable of criminal intent either.
But here’s the question:
Your child tells you that they are the opposite gender of the one they were born into. They are sure enough in their own mind that they become very upset or withdrawn or self-harming when treated as the gender they born into. What do you, as their parent, do? Do you force them to live as the gender they don’t identify with? Do you allow them to live as the gender they believe they are? Or do you allow them to live a gender-neutral life? It doesn’t seem that long ago that there was a thread about parents who were bringing up their child in a gender-free environment, not even telling the grandparents whether the child was male or female as “it shouldn’t matter”. But it does matter; male and female brains are wired up differently, we do approach problems differently, we do have a different learning style, we do interact differently, and our differences should be celebrated, not denied. So, as the parent of such a child, what would you do for the best?Well the situation is now out of control… with the parents the child has I doubt they are capable of sustaining real solutions.
Anyway first thing I would do is withdraw from the media… I would ensure the child had no doubt he was loved I would then ensure that he had a full and happy social life…loads of kids around all the time lots of play and sharing. Kids need to know the world does not revolve around them… they are not the centre of the universe… Slowly but surely I would hope that even if this child had confusions they would become less important as his life would be full of activities and friends.
I would favour gender neutral clothes and hair. It maybe that all this might be putting off the day for decisions for this little guy…. but until he is older I think thats for the best
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