Fascist America?

FYI American Woman, Ruby posted the lyrics of “American Idiot” by the band Green Day. They’re one of those popular beat combos that the kids listen to these days, playing that new fangled rock and roll music.

What you fail to realize American Woman is that the authorities do make mistakes. It’s not as if every single person accused of being a terrorist has a vast case-file against them proving their involvement in terrorist activity. Take the case of Tom Kubbany for example, an ordinary American citizen of Eastern origin who suddenly found out that he was on a terrorist watch list and was therefore banned from carrying out big financial transactions. US treasury officials claimed that he was actually the dead son of Saddam Hussein. You can read the full story here:

http://cbs5.com/investigates/local_story_291012007.html

That’s how wrong the authorities can be sometimes. There was also a mistaken raid on a home in East London where a suspect was accidentally shot and of course the Brazilian who was mistaken for a suicide bomber. Taking into consideration that sometimes the authorities get their facts completely wrong, why then would you approve of getting rid of all the checks and balances on the governments power? There would be no protection for innocents and would lead to a flood of miscarriages of justice.

You might assume that allowing a government carte blanche to fight terrorism would close the door on the terrorist threat but it would also close the door on civil liberty and human rights while opening the door for state-terror. You might think the government will protect you from the terrorists but who will protect you from the government once you give them power to bypass the judiciary?

When US soldiers were being dragged through the streets in Somalia or being tortured in Vietnam or being hacked to bits in Iraq did you say, “Well it’s a war. These things happen”? My point being that if you don’t place any value on human rights or the rights of prisoners then why expect anyboy else to?

There is also the fact that people will say anything when they are being tortured and so the evidence they give could be bogus. They could implicate innocent people just to stop the torture.

Another point that dawned on me is that if you torture 100 people, you might get information from 1 guilty person but you will be left with 99 disgruntled. innocent people who will pass on their anger to all their friends and relatives. That scenario is most dangerous in places like Iraq and Afghanistan where winning hearts and minds should have been a priority. Alienating the locals can have fatal consequences.

Bush was saying again yesterday that the war in Iraq was vital to stop the terrorists attacking America. The man has no shame. He’s a lying sack of sh1t. It’s bad enough that a few thousand US soldiers died in his needless war and that he totally screwed up the post-war strategy, but to continue to propagate the bare-faced lie that support for the war and the government was and still is necessary to prevent America being attacked is utterly obscene. Why more Americans don’t seem to realize this is beyond me.

@rubyred wrote:

and THATS white trash for ya…! heck,,i bet she was taught a slipknot,to lynch a nigga..

deep southern rednecks ! and BELEIVE me american woman i laugh AT you too,,,!!

so go to church this Sunday,,and thank the good southern,nigger hating lordy lordy..

yer a hypoctite like ALL of yer damm southern countyfolks !

no go post that pig,,cos us Europeans LAUGH ….

the south WONT rise as the superior Yankees fvcked ya kunt !

Ruby – Is that your way of having an intelligent argument? It really does show your ignorance if you can’t argue without acting like a 10 year old. Are you always this pathetic and hard up for attention? Go back to school huni – Go learn a thing or two. If not for yourself, do it for your grandchild. I’d hate to think your breading ignorance. And just a little fact for you, I’m a Yankee not a southerner :wink:

Drivel, you’re an absolute idiot. What’s happening now is worse than Watergate and is a modern equivalent of McCarthyism. What sort of moron would support the government torturing people? Answer me this, what would you say if it happened to you? What would you say if the authorities turned up without a warrant and tore apart your house and your belongings in a search? What would you say if you found out that they had put a tap on your phone and a keylogger on your computer all without court approval? What if they decided they had to torture your wife and kids because you didn’t give them the answers they wanted? If you don’t stand up for your rights then you can kiss them all goodbye.

Effectively, the terrorists are winning if some people are so petrified that they surrender their freedom to the government. If we allow the government to manipulate the public and perpetuate a climate of fear for their own ends and if we allow them to create an a quasi-fascist state then we will inevitably destroy our values, change our society for the worse and hand the terrorists a victory over us. It’s an act of cowardice to give up your values in the face of a threat. Hysterically lashing out at the muslims/arabs in our society only breeds dischord and aids the cause of our enemies. It takes more courage to stand by your principles in the face of danger than to panic and give everything up. So while Drivel and American Woman might be waving their white flags in the hope that Tony and George will protect them from the big bad terrorists, the rest of us will face the threat with more dignity and will not compromise the values of our free society just because we’re in danger.

@Bad Manners wrote:

@Mr Bigstuff wrote:

Drivel, you’re an absolute idiot. What’s happening now is worse than Watergate and is a modern equivalent of McCarthyism. What sort of moron would support the government torturing people? Answer me this, what would you say if it happened to you? What would you say if the authorities turned up without a warrant and tore apart your house and your belongings in a search? What would you say if you found out that they had put a tap on your phone and a keylogger on your computer all without court approval? What if they decided they had to torture your wife and kids because you didn’t give them the answers they wanted? If you don’t stand up for your rights then you can kiss them all goodbye.

Effectively, the terrorists are winning if some people are so petrified that they surrender their freedom to the government. If we allow the government to manipulate the public and perpetuate a climate of fear for their own ends and if we allow them to create an a quasi-fascist state then we will inevitably destroy our values, change our society for the worse and hand the terrorists a victory over us. It’s an act of cowardice to give up your values in the face of a threat. Hysterically lashing out at the muslims/arabs in our society only breeds dischord and aids the cause of our enemies. It takes more courage to stand by your principles in the face of danger than to panic and give everything up. So while Drivel and American Woman might be waving their white flags in the hope that Tony and George will protect them from the big bad terrorists, the rest of us will face the threat with more dignity and will not compromise the values of our free society just because we’re in danger.

Im in total agreement.

I’ll tell you something Bigmouth – it WONT happen to me , it wont happen to ANYONE I know
WHY – because we are not terrorists , we do not associate with any terrorists or criminals
Everything is above board
The rare instances you quote – are exactly that – RARE

And the only way that terrorists are winning – is because of Cowards and idiots like yourselves dissing the Americans and our Government for making a stand
Of course America blew up the twin towers so i tcould carry on its war against terrorism , of course thousands of innocent people are dragged out of their beds at night , tortured and never seen again , of course Santa Claus is real , and Elvis and Hendrix are still alive

Of course you are all idiots – that one’s true !!!