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Posts
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@tom wrote:
Fact: Facts need reliable, independent sources are it isn’t fact.
So where are your sources for these so-called facts?
Personally I’d say there is rarely such a thing as fact, the majority that is quoted as fact is simply as one or more people have observed or measured and therefore open to personal bias and/or interpretation. No statistics are 100% reliable, they can be influenced by so many different factors whilst being gathered and then manipulated during interpretation to suit the purpose for which they are being used.
However “facts” were demanded and so “facts” I have provided. The majority of it came from the Office of National Statistics or from recognised economical analysis experts.
Jen,
that is very insightful – about facts.It’s now generally accepted that facts don’t exist in isolation – that they are wrapped up in how we interpret them. (Churchill’s ‘lies, damned lies, and statistics’)
But racists, xenophobes and other bigots have stressed for a couple of hundred years now that theri racial approach is based on ‘science’ (another misused term, as in debates on God).
It was long argued that women were genetically less intelligent than men, and ‘scientific’ proofs were given based on the smaller size of women’s brains compared with men’s. Ditto with the ‘slave mentality’ of East Europeans, or the attempts of Professor Eysenck in the 70s to prove that black kids were ineherently stupid compared wiht white kids on the basis of IQ tests he had devised.
If you want a genuinely scary look at racism in action, the European football matches in Ukraine and Poland are sizing up to be humdingers.
And just wait to see what happens if the Euro blows up and the Greeks start heading northwards to escape possible famine shortly.
People are people – we have different characteristics, formed by waves of immigration which formed us all and continue to form us. I say help people where we can – there but for fortune.
@jen_jen wrote:
However “facts” were demanded and so “facts” I have provided. The majority of it came from the Office of National Statistics or from recognised economical analysis experts.
Thank you Jen, at last someone reveals the source of their figures, so they can be validated if necessary, instead of just acting as if the mere presence of zeros will bedazzle the ignorant and emotional.
Of course, being emotional the numbers don’t matter to me, but rest assured I do know how to use them if I think they do matter and I can usually tell how well they are being used.
Just to brighten the picture though, experience of immigration has also brought out good things from people prepared to help communities to re-form and cohere.
Enough welcome and support has been provided on a personal and institutional level to show that not all British people are xenophobic or panic-stricken by newcomers.
I guess the spirit of the the words “Welcome, come and be part of our maturing community” are not usually shouted, painted on placards, or brutally backed up by statistics, but shown by action, smiles and friendly acceptance.
@jen_jen wrote:
@tom wrote:
Fact: Facts need reliable, independent sources are it isn’t fact.
So where are your sources for these so-called facts?
Personally I’d say there is rarely such a thing as fact, the majority that is quoted as fact is simply as one or more people have observed or measured and therefore open to personal bias and/or interpretation. No statistics are 100% reliable, they can be influenced by so many different factors whilst being gathered and then manipulated during interpretation to suit the purpose for which they are being used.
However “facts” were demanded and so “facts” I have provided. The majority of it came from the Office of National Statistics or from recognised economical analysis experts.
I still don’t see any sources for these so-called fictitious facts :P
@sceptical guy wrote:
a lot of xenophobia on this thread.
Hi, Tom!!
Hi, Sceptical!!!
I’m not xenophobic, I just hate the French b*stards!! Bananas are SUPPOSED to be bendy!! And God damnit if I want to buy knobbly carrots, then knobbly carrots I will buy!! AND I WILL BUY THEM IN LBS!!! Back off, France!! Leave our bendy bananas and knobbly carrots alone!! :x
@Sgt Pepper wrote:
What a sad day for Democracy indeed, Ireland has just signed away its sovereignty completely. You poor, silly b*ggers.
And the problem is, the EU is collapsing, now you’ve signed your sovereignty and economy away, when they go down they’re taking every single penny Ireland has with them.
The Irish were like the Spanish and the Italians – caught between a rock and a hard place. The Greeks are in a cor blimey place. The Irish are a canny bunch – they knew the alternatives.
At some point, the pieces are going to need picking up.
While Tom frets about sovereignty, I would just like to remind anyone rich that £85,000 is the limit of your savings whihc can be guaranteed in any one bank holding company – if you have money in the Cheshire Building society and money in Nationwide, for example, they count as only one account, because the Cheshire is owned by Nationwide. Joint accounts held by two individuals mean that each has £85,000 guaranteed.
If you hold money in a European account, then less is guaranteed (100,00 Euro, I believe?).
I don’t think there’ll be an almighty smackerooni of the international banking system, but if Cameron and co are preparing for one (emergency meetings with bankers held last week) , then it’s best to be ready. Get a weapon if you’re going to hide your cash under the bed.
At some point, they’re going to have to move forward, or pick the pieces up, and they all know it. Not sure what the Euro will look like then, but my guess is that things will be a lot more centralised to stop this happening again. We shoul join at that point – on condition that the EU be democratically accountable, coz at the moment it ain’t. Less a dictatorship, more a bureaucratic beargarden. It’s democratic control which makes genuine sovereignty, not flag-waving, and I regard myself as a British and European citizen.
Bomb the Euro-fascist scum! The day I let France & Germany rule over me is the day I allow modern music to be played in my house *spits at the EU flag* :x
Britain will NEVER join the Euro, NEVER. “Britons never never never shall be slaves”
Also, the Magna Carta clearly states that foreign rule over England is illegal.
As a Briton, I would be well within my legally designated rights to bomb, shoot, maim, murder, beat or cause any other kind of minor disruption to any official or representative of the European Union as it would be an act of war.
The evil fascist empire of the European Union will face the same fate as its predecessors, the Third Reich & the USSR.
@tom wrote:
Bomb the Euro-fascist scum! The day I let France & Germany rule over me is the day I allow modern music to be played in my house *spits at the EU flag* :x
Britain will NEVER join the Euro, NEVER. “Britons never never never shall be slaves”
Also, the Magna Carta clearly states that foreign rule over England is illegal.
As a Briton, I would be well within my legally designated rights to bomb, shoot, maim, murder, beat or cause any other kind of minor disruption to any official or representative of the European Union as it would be an act of war.
The evil fascist empire of the European Union will face the same fate as its predecessors, the Third Reich & the USSR.
The Magna Carta is held in MY city, not yours
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