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Posts
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@quiet_man wrote:
It’s a political crime, the state are asking him to enforce their laws, he’s not a policeman, nor a criminal. Nor is smoking a criminal offence, nor is it illegal.
So that makes him a political prisoner for not doing the diktats of the state.
Penalties and fines for breaking the smokefree law
Local councils are responsible for enforcing the new law in England. If you don’t comply with the smokefree law, you will be committing a criminal offence. The fixed penalty notices and maximum fine for each offence are:
Smoking in smokefree premises or work vehicles: a fixed penalty notice of £50 (reduced to £30 if paid in 15 days) imposed on the person smoking. Or a maximum fine of £200 if prosecuted and convicted by a court.Failure to display no-smoking signs: a fixed penalty notice of £200 (reduced to £150 if paid in 15 days) imposed on whoever manages or occupies the smokefree premises or vehicle. Or a maximum fine of £1000 if prosecuted and convicted by a court.
Failing to prevent smoking in a smokefree place: a maximum fine of £2500 imposed on whoever manages or controls the smokefree premises or vehicle if prosecuted and convicted by a court. There is no fixed penalty notice for this offence.
Smoking in public is illegal and a criminal offence.
Allowing your premises to be used for smoking is illegal and a criminal offence.
Why do you keep insisting that it isn’t?
And there are many laws that, if you turn a blind eye to someone committing an offence, you are then guilty of another offence. So by your reasoning there must be a lot of political prisoners…
@jen_jen wrote:
@quiet_man wrote:
It’s a political crime, the state are asking him to enforce their laws, he’s not a policeman, nor a criminal. Nor is smoking a criminal offence, nor is it illegal.
So that makes him a political prisoner for not doing the diktats of the state.
Penalties and fines for breaking the smokefree law
Local councils are responsible for enforcing the new law in England. If you don’t comply with the smokefree law, you will be committing a criminal offence. The fixed penalty notices and maximum fine for each offence are:
Smoking in smokefree premises or work vehicles: a fixed penalty notice of £50 (reduced to £30 if paid in 15 days) imposed on the person smoking. Or a maximum fine of £200 if prosecuted and convicted by a court.Failure to display no-smoking signs: a fixed penalty notice of £200 (reduced to £150 if paid in 15 days) imposed on whoever manages or occupies the smokefree premises or vehicle. Or a maximum fine of £1000 if prosecuted and convicted by a court.
Failing to prevent smoking in a smokefree place: a maximum fine of £2500 imposed on whoever manages or controls the smokefree premises or vehicle if prosecuted and convicted by a court. There is no fixed penalty notice for this offence.
Smoking in public is illegal and a criminal offence.
Allowing your premises to be used for smoking is illegal and a criminal offence.
Why do you keep insisting that it isn’t?
And there are many laws that, if you turn a blind eye to someone committing an offence, you are then guilty of another offence. So by your reasoning there must be a lot of political prisoners…
No the laws are an infringement of your civil liberties, it isn’t illegal to smoke, nor should the onus be on the owner of a building to stop you smoking.
I also suggest you check the relevant paperwork too.
The Debtors Act 1869 abolished imprisonment for debt, although debtors who had the means to pay their debt, but did not do so, could still be incarcerated for up to six weeks.
In my research, I have noted the relevent paperwork which has thrown up a stunner. On page 23, the guidelines state:
In addition to the evidence of smoking taking place, the Courts have also indicated that they are taking into consideration the following matters:
• the number of occasions on which the council is able to demonstrate that information and advice on the smokefree requirements have been provided to the person in control;
• the failure by the person in control to take action after the receipt of such information and advice;
and
• public statements made by or on behalf of the person in control:
• that they do not agree with or support the smokefree legislation;
• that they are actively campaigning against it; or
• that they do not intend to do anything more than simply inform people that they should not smoke.Officers of LACORS and the CIEH are continuing to closely monitor prosecutions and may be able to provide information on trends, levels of fines and costs, etc but not of course advice to councils in preparing their own cases. Of particular interest are those cases brought against repeat offenders which test the ability of the council to secure penalties prescribed in the legislation which will act as a deterrent against further offending as this information may be used to inform responses to further consultations by the Government.
So you can be imprisoned by New Labour for not agreeing with or supporting smokefree legislation. Nice.
@quiet_man wrote:
It’s a political crime, the state are asking him to enforce their laws, he’s not a policeman, nor a criminal. Nor is smoking a criminal offence, nor is it illegal.
So that makes him a political prisoner for not doing the diktats of the state.
It’s an offence in a public place and he positively encouraged it he stuck notices on the tables ffs, you cant decide to flout a law because you dont agree with it, and when he was prsecuted for that he REFUSED to pay the fine. Again i’ll say it should have been left to individual pubs and breweries to give people the choice, and i did read that tobacco sales went up in Scotland. I would imagine because you cant take your glass outside the pub (and it may be bloody cold) so you smoke half a fag throw the rest away and get back in pub, but you’ve only had half a nicotine fix so your next comes quicker.
If it is indeed this criminal offence, one prosecuted by law, why then arent a team of officers despatched to the smoking room within the house of commons and arresting and charging those within it who are smoking?
Possibly because there isnt one
@pete wrote:
Possibly because there isnt one
There is one, and that was my whole point, if it’s illegal, why isnt somebody doing something about it. Because its the same old story thats why, one rule for them, and another rule for the rest of us :roll:Like i said because there isnt one, the commons has no room in which smoking is allowed
“The Health Act 2006 introduces a ban on smoking in workplaces and enclosed or substantially enclosed public places from 1 July 2007. While the Act does not formally apply on the parliamentary estate, the Commission, on the advice of the Administration Committee, has decided that the House should comply with the principles of the legislation, as it is not desirable that those who work on or visit the parliamentary estate should be treated differently in this respect than in other workplaces and public places. The Commission recognises, however, that many who work on the estate are unavoidably present for long periods, particularly when the House is sitting. It is therefore desirable to make reasonable provision for those who wish to smoke to do so, provided that the health and safety of other users of the estate is not adversely affected.
With these principles in mind, the Commission has decided that smoking should cease to be permitted from 1 July 2007 in all internal areas of the House of Commons estate, including in bars and private offices. From that date smoking will, however, be permitted in four designated external areas: the Terrace, Commons Court (North West corner), North Terrace (between Portcullis House and Norman Shaw South), and in a designated area on the west side of Canon Row courtyard. Cigarette receptacles will be provided in these areas. “No Smoking” signs will be displayed at entrances to the buildings. I understand that the House of Lords Administration and Works Committee will report its recommendations shortly on the smoking policy for the Lords part of the Parliamentary Estate.”
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