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yeah that’ll be it panda :roll:
@(f)politics? wrote:
yeah that’ll be it panda :roll:
Thought so.
oh! didn’t I mention that the only black person around here in SW France that I know, is my doctor! :D
Poli, it’s not true to say someone of dark skin colour doesn’t get the same gagging if they mention colour. It can be misery indeed to be treated as a troublemaker with a chip on the shoulder for commenting on even the most obvious bias. And please be aware that the hypocrisy of uncaring PC can turn it’s ire on any black person that doesn’t toe the party line with equal or greater ferocity as it does to a white person in the same position.
We had a prolonged serious of postings on these boards where Panda was accused of playing the race card for mentioning racism. when I supported the point she was making I in turn was accused of the same thing. The intention on the part of those criticising was certainly to shut us up as there was no recognition of any validity to the points we tried to make.
Even when I tried to give Pepper grounds for some insight behind his rebuttals on the basis that he might have been on the receiving end of unfair treatment because of his colour – as you are claiming to be – he reacted as if it was an insult not worth peeing on.
Two sides of the same coin, whatever the target or the intention, anything that reinforces a sense of ‘us’ and ‘them’ and relegates ‘them’ to a position where they deserve lesser freedoms, fewer rights, a poorer quality of life and keeps them away from the inside knowledge which would help them to acclimatise reflects the bad side of cliques. The chances are any one of us has been treated like that at some time.
If you’re not aware of being on the receiving end of this treatment, either because you haven’t, because it’s forgotten, or because it’s been subtle, then observing other people assert themselves in the face of discrimination can seem over the top.
But I would suggest that if apparent unfairness in a thread on the boards can but that hurtful, imagine how it can feel out in the world where it can affect your job, housing, social integration or that of your children. Under those circumstances something inessential, like a marriage ceremony, might acquire disproportionate importance.
People who belong to, or associate with the ‘in’ crowd can be mystified by the perspective of those who don’t (do cliques of men ever understand women? Do cliques of women ever recognise the impact on men of some of their more dismissive comments?).
It takes listening and respect to change things. A long term view which allows patience and persistence also helps. That’s what we tend to do with people we care about. I hope the attempts to explain on both sides reflect that and are not simply defences to entrenched positions
Well said, Words.
I notice poli left the debate when challenged.
May I ask why my input on a different thread is being brought into this? This being a thread I havent contributed to, yet one (up till now) that I was enjoying reading. And in such a misinterpreted manner at that .. ranging from the accusatory to the condescending?
That thread finished in relatively good spirit did it not?
If there are still issues unresolved, I’m certainly unaware. And I was quite content to walk away agreeing to disagree.This is not a whinge, just an expression of exasperation. So, with all due respect, I’m asking that I be left out of this one.
As a favour.
I’d appreciate it.
Thanks.
@Sgt Pepper wrote:
May I ask why my input on a different thread is being brought into this? This being a thread I havent contributed to, yet one (up till now) that I was enjoying reading. And in such a misinterpreted manner at that .. ranging from the accusatory to the condescending?
That thread finished in relatively good spirit did it not?
If there are still issues unresolved, I’m certainly unaware. And I was quite content to walk away agreeing to disagree.This is not a whinge, just an expression of exasperation. So, with all due respect, I’m asking that I be left out of this one.
As a favour.
I’d appreciate it.
Thanks.
It’s relevant to the subject Pepper. It’s relevant because it is ‘in our own backyard’ and an example of something which Poli claimed darker skinned people were not subject to.
Sorry if it spoils it for you Pepper but the words in bold are yours, in reply to “. . . think about the times you’ve been subjected to racism and you might recognise the corellation.”
you offeredI won’t grace such a stupendously idiotic remark with a response.
You later explained the tone of your contributions and offered an apology, I have accepted the apology, but that doesn’t un-say what you have said.
In any case, if the thread finished in a good spirit then why can’t it be quoted as an example of something that actually happened and was resolved?
Why is it accusatory or condescending to suggest that you might have been discriminated against because of your colour? (I realise you might not be white, so not included in f-pol’s assertion – but was she being condescending?)
Why is it accusatory or condescending to suggest that such experience might have given you insight to back up your authoritatively-phrased postings and disagreements with the comments made by panda and myself based on our separate experiences.
Why is it accusatory or condescending to refer to something you actually posted where it had the effect quoted?
I’m afraid one of the consequences of having a style that by your own admission might be seen as abrasive, is that it can have a harsh impact, even if not intended. Thus it tends to be memorable. I don’t expect you to change your style, but you put this ‘out there’.
Count yourself lucky, at least I simply referred to the actual impact of something you actually posted, and nothing further. I’ve become such a by-word in the eyes of one chatter, that being associated with me was used by him as an insult against someone else who hadn’t even mentioned me!
Not getting back into this i think i’ve said all i need to do on the subject, but words, we obviously can’t begin to understand how it feels to be someone else, i can’t begin to know what it may feel like to be subject to whatever racism bigotry you may or may not have been a victim of, nor you know how it feels to be on the other side, feeling stifled of freedoms of speech under that umbrella, but suffice to say i’m sure we both have different views and i for one respect, although enjoy debating, your take on things. Without differing views we wouldn’t be having the interesting debate, reading different angles we have had.
And panda you can try and drag me back into it with your mocking posts, but i have been challenged throughout and made my replies, i see no point in going over the same thing again
So thanks for a great debate the last couple of days, its what message boards are about, soon as it starts getting personal in anyway though, is when i chose to bow out.@(f)politics? wrote:
. . . . you (cannot) know how it feels to . . . . feeling stifled of freedoms of speech under that umbrella,
Yes I can See my previous posting.
I’m not just the colour of my skin. As a middle aged, middle class, English, heterosexual male of Christian heritage and cultural allegiance (I do luvs my labels!), there are several debates from which others have tried to exclude me. Including debates about my own experiences and yes, ones about colour, based on an assumption that I am well served by the status quo.
So inasmuch as any experience can be generic, yes, I can possibly know.
You seem to have problems letting this go Words.
That, my friend, is perfectly within your rights.. and as I see it, your problem.For my part, I have apologised for my “style” that seems to so insult you.
In fact I’ve apologised twice.
If your skin (whatever colour it may be) is indeed so thin as to be unable to withstand some of my more abrasive comments (though in fairness, I have seen much worse on here), then for a third time, I apologise in so much that it’s an unfortunate circumstance and that I truly do not set out to offend you.However (and I take no joy in saying this) I have not (and will not for that matter) apologise for my feelings when I made the (granted, over the top) “stupendously idiotic” remark.
So, just to clarify, if the manner of my retort offended you, I’m sorry. But I will not apologise for the emotions that inspired it at the time and I certainly don’t seek to undo them. No need to now in fairness as they have long since dissipated (you should try that).
No, I assumed your argument would be big and bold enough to take some of the counterpunches, afterall I could just as easily make a similar song and dance about comments and assumptions you subsequently felt free to make regarding me on that wretched thread.
Outlandish talk of Parapets and what not..
But I didn’t, and I won’t.
In my mind it’s done mate.
It feckin certainly is now lol.The great irony is that , yes, I could have given you a litany of times I myself have been subjected to pretty nasty bouts of discrimination on so many levels and that yes, in the main , I agree with most of your insightful posts with regard to social conscience on these boards. But in my irritation I saw you asking that question as an emotive deflection from the real injustice I was pursuing. My take on it at the time was that the whole thing was utterly corrupted by what I perceived to be the most monstrous liberites being taken with the language of victimhood and condemnation by both you and panda. This was MY ONLY ever beef on that thread.
I called what I called in relation to the equivocating nature of your posts. I quoted some of these as evidence, citing at best the rather fluid nature of your interpretation and at worst, yes, the downright contradictions, tune changing and equivocation to suit, what i saw , as an agenda. A marked retreat from kneejerk racism claims into the safety of a sneering, goading triumphalism aimed at Terry.
I asked people to make up their own minds in that regard.
I received “Codswallop” from you in return.
Which is grand, if that’s how you saw it.
And it’s grand if every single person on this site sees it that way too.
I certainly won’t be whinging or bleating at this apparent dismissal.
I won’t be bringing such rebuttals up on threads elsewhere.
In short, I won’t be returning to that particular subject.But if indeed, you are using the rather flimsy premise of it being “out there” to dig this all up again, then fire away, I’m not going to stand in your way. If it’s relevant to this thread as you say, then yet again, it seems I do you a disservice.
But remarks I made weeks ago in an entirely different context spurred me tonight to ask a favour of you on this page hoping that none of this would come about. You had every right to refuse, and it looks like you have. That’s also grand. I guess I was rather naive in that respect.So, you feel free to use whatever is “out there” Words.
Happy hunting.
I’ve told you elsewhere on this site what I truly think of your posts and contributions on here. I want to tell you none of this has effected that.
I’m a bit disappointed to be sure, but, hey, none of us will lose any sleep huh? And please God we will wake happy and healthy tomorrow.
Goodnight Words.
(Or Good Morning if you are reading this over your porridge).
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