Britain is not the EU's equal in strength, and boy, does it show

mooosey88 wrote:

In fact, this is exactly what the EU want to happen in the UK as well, scare everyone silly, as you try to do, and force a 2nd referendum,

Actually, nobody (least of all me) has the power to scare anybody into a 2nd referendum.

We live in a parliamentary democracy. That means parliamentary sovereignty. The 2016 referendum was an advisory referendum. The advice, by a narrow majority, was to leave the EU.

Neither I nor the EU will have anything to do with the decision to have a 2nd referendum. There is no majority in parliament for a NO-Deal scenario (God, no wonder!!), and there is no majority in parliament for a 2nd referendum.

Parliament will never vote to rejoin the EU, barring another referendum. That was the decision of the 2016 referendum, and only a minority of MPs would want to flout that decision.

If we do end up leaving the EU without a deal, it will be by default. Parliament will have been unable to agree upon any other solution, they vote next week to keep the No-deal option, and we’ll end up out. We could well end up out without a deal anyway. That could happen. Why in hell does this NOT worry you?! or are you genuinely living in some Fantasy Castle?

If we do end up with a referendum, then it’s because Parliament will have voted next week on banning a no-deal option, and been unable to agree on any other decision. They would then hand the decision back to the people. It’s likely, but not inevitable.

It’s Parliament which will do that, just as it was Parliament whihc asked the people nearly 30 months ago – not me, not you, not the EU, and likely not Theresa May. Parliament.

Dream up your conspiracies all you like – the simple fact is that brexit has ended up in bollox, and the mess has to be sorted out democratically by Parliament or by the people directly.. Fact, not paranoid speculation.

God, it’ll be like the ‘stab in the back’ fantasies which prevailed in Germany after the Great War, or in the US military after Vietnam!

Paige, the lack of an answer to your simple but sharp question says it all.

There isn’t an answer.

This is all ending in tears, and they’re quite upset about it.

Join the club.

The worst may yet be to come (especially if we leave without a deal, which is entirely possible).

Linda,

let’s hope  that it will all be resolved – mysteriously? (Is Mister God about to step in?)

I really don’t accept your point about politics. It is surely used to stir things up – the subject of pub battles galore and plenty of posing macho-man stuff here.

But politics is too serious to ignore. The public issues are public – they are important for us all, sometimes very important. The EU issue is going to affect us all, whatever occurs, even you Americans. Your Trump is aware of the importance of the EU, and has intervened in a very partisan manner twice at least during the crucial moments of this on behalf of brexit. I don’t object to this. It’s an international matter.

The German-American political philosopher, Hannah Arendt – to many, including me, the most interesting thinker of the last century – has written about lying in politics in a very interesting pair of articles which apply as much to Trump and the liars of brexit, and to those very different liars of anti-brexit and anti-Trump, if you’re interested, which I assume you’re not???