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The polls have not shifted dramatically one way or another over the past two years or so and more or less mirror what they found before the referendum, with a 5% margin for error, still slightly in favour of Remain. No long term trend has emerged over those two years to hold another referendum.
Agree, with one qualification.
The new voters who’ve come onto the register since the referendum – people who were 16 and 17 at that time – want to remain by 7 to 1. They are the people whose futures are being decided here, and they want to stay. the result has been to shift support to a slight majority for Reamin, but generally
I am AGAINST a people’s referendum at the present time.
It ain’t going to happen, but I love the demo in London this Saturday because it keeps the option in people’s minds.
We’re going to leave – next March. It’s a question of how. The likeliest option is the one I want – though only a fool would predict anything with certainty.
Join the Customs Union, like Norway. See what it’s like. Then in 3 or 4 years, vote on whether to stay in the Customs Union, rejoin the EU, or quit entirely. This could be done in an election – or even another referendum. Norway conducted a second referendum and decided to stay in a Customs Union.
There are problems with that, but there are problems with all options.
My guess is that the Commons will force May or her successor to choose that route.
64% of young people didn’t vote in the referendum when they had their chance, they just couldn’t be arsed, it just wasn’t that important to them and so they obviously didn’t give a damn, whatever the likes of arch Europhiles Tony Blair and Nick Clegg spout now and who both while in power didn’t give a damn about young people from poorer working class backgrounds anyway. Clegg renegaded on his pledge not to raise tuition fees and Blair who also presided over more cuts to manufacturing than Thatcher. They didn’t give a toss about young people then, did they. Young people also didn’t turn out to vote against Cameron when he included the referendum in his pre-election manifesto. If they had got of their backsides there wouldn’t have been a referendum in the first place…
Secondly, in one breathe Sceptical has repeatedly told us over the past two years over and over and over again just how “complicated” this issue is, how 17.4 adults were hoodwinked by “lies” and spin and that “we” didn’t know what we voted for and in the next breathe claims it should all now be decided by 18 year olds who have just left school, because apparently “it is all about them” and that apparently they have far more knowledge than 17.4 million people…
It’s a shame that while the liberal class held the levers of power over the past 40 years or so that they didn’t think about the importance of young people from shit council estates then, while they dumped entire communities and at least two generations of young people on the scrapheap. The same generation/s that voted Brexit and the same issue that is currently happening all over the EU zone.
You reap what you sow.
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Scep your politics and ours so different.
Simple..even though a nation..each State has own laws..legislators..senators..
Towns, municipalities we call them each have guidelines, budgets..excess revenue goes to government. In turn the more a State gives to larger government, the more revenue it help turned back to that County..filters down thru the towns…
Our big big problem here and in all States I assume is we have what called non for profit organizations. They pay absolutely nothing…taxpayers pick up those debts. We have seniors who many pay no school tax. Taxpayers pick up those debts. We have churches..pay no taxes..bottom line..towns in the red..they get funds from the other taxpayers to help pay those cost. Then you have those who come for assylum..the lottery system, welfare and everything else..taxpayers pick up and absorb cost to run things. Provide programs. But eventually we dry up. We can’t move out of one State hoping another State will give more. Most who move want to pay less taxes..but down side..the salaries may be much lesser even if cost of living may be cheaper. So it is basically one hand washed another. We try to find even ground to have programs..supplement our needs.. not easy or always available. Each of us suffer and have loss in some form. If it be our medical coverage, so forth costly.
So I am simply trying to ask you..where do you feel you intend to live to make it any different then way you live now? You may be surprised to learn no difference. You still pay the piper..you still have advantages and disadvantages.
Even though I have admitted your politics does confuse me..trying to get a better grip whom you trying to blame for these issues..? Government leaders? They have guidelines too. Voters yes very critical..you think it going to make a great deal if difference..one leader get’s you more than another. Ahh game of politics..u have really no clue. Bottom line..leaders say you help me..I help you to each other. I have seen this many a time..trust me..
The new voters who’ve come onto the register since the referendum – people who were 16 and 17 at that time – want to remain by 7 to 1.
Scraping the barrel here !! No lets wait till the 12 year old’s are of age, after all its their future too. I have never ever heard anyone with the opinion that the EU are bending over backwards to help ? Not even staunch remainers ! What you just can’t comprehend is that many many people voted’ out’ on the principals of it all. The EU is a bully, it is not what we signed up for, it is a train crash waiting to happen, and when it does all go tits up we’ll be glad we got out when we did. It is defunct. They desperate for us not to leave, even offering now to extend the process, not to make it easier for us out of the kindness of their hearts lol How naive ! And quite frankly who cares what some confused woman from Lithuania thinks ? No one is saying that after Brexit it will all be roses and rainbows, but the majority of the people of this country voted to go for it !!
Sticking a line from newspaper reports in here and there such as ” women from Liverpool forced into prostitution because of universal credit” which, btw sounds so ridiculous its almost funny, does not make your ‘reasoned argument’ category I’m afraid.
I’m going to use a phrase Ge used to you, which I have tried very often to re-iterate to no avail….
It is just not statistically possible that everyone else is stupid, except for you.
The EU are not bending over backwards to help at all as you quite rightly state Moose. The cunning EU have utilized every political trick in the book to slow the process down and put up obstacles and only want an extension of the negotiating period in the hope public opinion will change in favour of Remain and another opportunity for another referendum in the near future and endless referendums until they get the result they want.
The fat cat neoliberal EU cartel spent over 4 years negotiating a trade deal with the USA and once it became apparent what that crap deal actually entailed France immediately indicated they would veto the deal, 4 years and the EU couldn’t even get that right and yet according to Mr sceptical, the EU and not the UK government are the ‘experts’. A trade deal that would have handed enormous power over to American big business totally bypassing sovereign power of the democratically elected UK parliament.
The reality is that the nonstop barrage of abuse and vitriol from the Remain liberal middle class, including on this site, has entrenched the Brexit opposition and which is why the polls have barely shifted either way. Economic armageddon did not happen as predicted following the result and so now Remain have resorted to this emotive drivel “the kids future” etc. Like I said in my earlier post, in power they didn’t give a rats arse about “kids futures” outside their liberal middle class bubble and they certainly don’t give a rats arse now either.
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Some intresting points guys, good to see intellectual intregrity has returned to the boards.
Just wanted to agree with moose on polls.
I don’t know anyone who has taken part in one.
It would take a brave person to stop a stranger in the street and ask who they voted?
Im aware these things can be done online obviously,
But can we really listen to polls anymore?
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Well they got it wrong when they predicted a ‘Remain’ landslide win on The Referendum, as did the BBC… and all its clever economic and political experts and pundits. The British people turned out in force to vote ( for once) they felt so strongly about it, on both sides, people would be stupid to assume they’ve changed their minds now, in fact I’d go so far as to say, because of the behaviour of The EU since the result possibly quite a few more want no part of their bullying cartel, and as Ge pointed out, Armageddon, promised by the Remain ‘experts’ didn’t happen ? so maybe a few more would be brave enough to risk running our own country… Again.
I voted stay but we lost.In my book the vote was done so just get us out of there.What will be will be.As the saying goes no point crying over spilt milk.
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This is a bit strange. How have I used polls to call for a new referendum, in what way is the EU a cartel (! never mind neo-liberal), and in what way have they been buloying us have they been bullying us??
1) Has anyone called for a referendum in here? I said I’m against one at the moment, because the polls show no significant change in public opinion. The poll that was done was by John Curtice, the most respected of pollsters who has consistently been spot-on in his forecasts for elections when others have been sadly wide of the mark. Curtice is the most respected pollster in the country. But so what?? His polling has shown no change in opinion significant enough to merit another referendum. Gerry said this. I agreed with it.
Could someone explain to me what a neo-liberal cartel is, and how the EU fits the bill? Do you actually know what a cartel is? Obviously not. I’m still waiting for someone to explin what neo-liberal means. The EU is most certainly not a cartel unless you want to just make up a new meaning for the word. there is much wrong with the EU, and it’s changing a lot to meet the stresses. That’s the way they work. Personally, I would want a fight to make it democratic, as Ken Coates demanded when he was an MEP. But as we’re leaving, that isn’t our job any more.
Neo-liberal cartel???
Ms M?? Gerry???3) The EU are bullying us??? They made a joke about may’s cherry cake and Donald Tusjk made a poor attempt at imitating Theresa may’s poor attempt at dancing. Nasty Johnny Foreigner again!! But in what other way? Talk about looking for a scapegoat.
They’ve been waiting nearly two years for us to put forward a negotiating position, and when we finally do it’s got no support in parliament, and the terms have been rejected as not workable even before they were put forward. So surprise surprise, they say it’s not workable. They’ve suggested an extension of the timetable for transition – if that will help. If it doesn’t help, then do’t take it. How’s that bullying. They’ve suggested light-touch regulation of goods in house – in the factoreis and shops – rather thanerecting a order. may seized on that as a genuine concession, whihc was welcomed by husiness in Northern ireland, but the DUP bigots said no, so may had to drope it.
The EU haven’t bgeen able to buloly the UK, because the UK haven’t put froweard anything whihc the UK parliament supports, above all one wig or other of the Tories.
So in what way have they been bullying? Like neo-liberal cartel, it sounds good, until you look at it more closely.
The Brits have made a total bollox of Brexit, and we’re heading for a bad place at best. If you don’t believe me, you’ve not been looking at any news on this in the last month.
Could someone explain to me what a neo-liberal cartel is, and how the EU fits the bill? Do you actually know what a cartel is? Obviously not. I’m still waiting for someone to explin what neo-liberal means. The EU is most certainly not a cartel unless you want to just make up a new meaning for the word. there is much wrong with the EU, and it’s changing a lot to meet the stresses. That’s the way they work. Personally, I would want a fight to make it democratic, as Ken Coates demanded when he was an MEP. But as we’re leaving, that isn’t our job any more.
I don’t know what a neo-liberal cartel is, but the EU’s single market acts as an economically protectionist block, which could be described accurately as a cartel on trade.
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