Bombs Away??

supreme overlord paigey wrote:

i personally wouldn’t call the bombing of anything a success

short and sharp, as you often are, Paigey.

The first indications of this ‘strike’ show it to be a sign o weakness. The attack  was on some chemical plants which are said to hve manufactured sarin. It was  chlorine which seems to have been used in the Syrian attack (assuming it was them, though it seems to be so), and the country is awash with chlorine weapons. It’s chlorine whihc is used in the attacks – legal to own, but illegal to use.

It seems to have led to a large increase in Assad attacks on civilians in Homs and elsewhere, using barrel bombs and other HE.

It’s pushed Putin and Iran much closer together, with Iranian Pres Rouhani stressing the need for close cooperation in the face of such assaults.

Bombing is leading to more bombing. Surprise! Surprise!

You should google more carefully.

I’m not an expert on the Middle East – far from it, my younger son is far better read on the region than I am. But I read the paper, read some books, can hold a moderately intelligent conversation, even with him,  which pays respects to the facts without winging it.

You should do the same. You google too quickly.

Morgan. wrote:

sceptical guy wrote:

Iran/Persia never had any influence historically in the Middle East.

Really? Ever heard of the Persian Empire in history? The middle east was part of that. I asked earlier for a definition of the middle east. Iran is arguably West Asia or part of the middle east. As part of the middle east, it will have an influence.

I was thinking of the modern Middle East (since the breakup of the ottoman Empire), as anyone with an eye on the ball in this discussion would have realised. The last time the Persian Empire dominated the Middle East was the time of Colin Farrell aka Alexander the Great! Since Roman times, if you google the Persian Empire and read it carefully, it has held some sway in Central Asia, with the possible exception of Mesopotamia in the 16th century. The Persian Empire refers to the title the Shahs gave themselves – their Empire extends over modern Iran. It has not had any political influence over the Middle East for centuries. You’re throwing out a McGuffin which seems very learned but indicates that you’re winging it.

Worse.

Morgan. wrote:

sceptical guy wrote:

You get your history wrong (talking about the Balfour Doctrine!) and then, when confronted with it, revert to semantics.

I didn’t get my history wrong at all. This is what I wrote, “Erm you’re about a century too late. Balfour Agreement. The middle east was sliced up a long time ago.” What part of that is wrong? Balfour Declaration 1917. That’s “about a century ago” isnt it ? Sykes–Picot Agreement 1916. That’s about a century ago isn’t? I mentioned the Balfour declaration yes. The Declaration advocates the re carving of Palestine into a state for the jewish people. That is clear re-carving and border and boundary changing, and valid to cite. The declaration was connected to the year earlier Sykes–Picot Agreement. Either, or better both, can be cited as 100 year old examples of carving up the middle east.

Read it more carefully.

The Balfour Agreement, unlike Sykes-Picot, had nothing to do with carving or re-carving anything. It was a landmark in the history of modern Israel, an expression of support for a Jewish home in Palestine, and ran in direct conflict with Sykes-Picot. That was why the British occupying forces in Palestine found themselves in bloody conflict with the Jews there from the 1930s up to the foundation of Israel in 1948. Israel was carved out of Palestine not by any declaration, but by war. It was carved not in 1917, but thirty years later. If you disagree, show why, but be a bit more careful checking out your facts.

Re-carving is talking about spheres of influence – British and French at first, American (with Fort Israel) and Soviet later. Iran is now moving forward with Russian support to take up a strategically important swathe of territory from the Caspian to the Mediterranean. Iranian dominance is in the process of being established and may be stopped – Israel is already attacking Iranian forces in Syria.

Yes, Saudi Arabia, whihc is fighting a proxy war with Iran in Yemen, and Turkey and Israel etc are big boys with big guns backed by the US, and that impresses you greatly, but to me it all means more war, more cruelty, more misery for ordinary Arabs. It’s that latter which counts with me.