Bombs Away??

sceptical guy wrote:

You get your history wrong (talking about the Balfour Doctrine!) and then, when confronted with it, revert to semantics.

I didn’t get my history wrong at all. This is what I wrote,
“Erm you’re about a century too late. Balfour Agreement. The middle east was sliced up a long time ago.”

What part of that is wrong?

Balfour Declaration 1917. That’s “about a century ago” isnt it ?
Sykes–Picot Agreement 1916. That’s about a century ago isn’t?

I mentioned the Balfour declaration yes. The Declaration advocates the re carving of Palestine into a state for the jewish people. That is clear re-carving and border and boundary changing, and valid to cite. The declaration was connected to the year earlier Sykes–Picot Agreement. Either, or better both, can be cited as 100 year old examples of carving up the middle east. I would have cited the Sykes–Picot Agreement had I remembered the name of it, as this is a perfect example of recarving.

So this new re-carving of the middle east concept of yours, is hardly the Sykes–Picot Agreement / Balfour type of re-carving. It is little more than a second division power shift. Syria are not one of the middle east heavyweights, certainly not now.

History didn’t begin 100 years ago. So how relevant is this?
The middle east has been carved up since biblical times. It’s this “new” recarving you suggest, and what exactly Putin has “got” out of it, what it’s “costing” him, and is it worth it? we should be discussing now.

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mooosey88

Good post Sceptical.

I would add that Syria provides Russia (and Iran) their only port access to the Mediterranean and Putin has signed a deal with Assad that now gives territorial sovereignty of the established Russian Navy base (in Tartus) to Russia. Strategically important both militarily and commercially, with plans afoot to massively increase the size, giving access to aircraft carriers etc and large commercial shipping. There is also a newly established Russian airbase in Latakia.

The largest natural gas field in the world is shared by Iran and Qatar. With plans afoot to build a monster pipeline, including through Syria. Russia and Syria want a slice of that action and are competing with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey to build that pipeline. Qatar is pro EU and the clash there between Russia and the EU is fairly obvious because Russia provides around a quarter of the gas Europe consumes and the EU wants to lessen Russian influence/involvement in its energy requirements. Syria obviously wants to build it to help the Syrian economy recover. Russia is also forging new energy ties with Iran.

As has been stated, it is a highly complex situation and the “Trump” kicked Syrian arseology, makes a total mockery of it.

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Morgan.

I haven’t made a comment on the politics of this whole debate, middle east etc,  I’m not  knowledgeable enough on it all …although I did know someone who was sent over to Syria about 4-5 years ago, all very hush hush, never heard a word since, I fear the worst. The British Government were certainly involved as many as 7 years ago I KNOW  that much. Its just a shame that intelligent people cant discuss things without being , smart arsed or overbearing and smug. Grown up men. Stop trying to point score. It stops an interesting debate being interesting !

night

Ge wrote:

Good post Sceptical. I would add that Syria provides Russia (and Iran) their only port access to the Mediterranean and Putin has signed a deal with Assad that now gives territorial sovereignty of the established Russian Navy base (in Tartus) to Russia. Strategically important both militarily and commercially, with plans afoot to massively increase the size, giving access to aircraft carriers etc and large commercial shipping. There is also a newly established Russian airbase in Latakia. The largest natural gas field in the world is shared by Iran and Qatar. With plans afoot to build a monster pipeline, including through Syria. Russia and Syria want a slice of that action and are competing with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey to build that pipeline. Qatar is pro EU and the clash there between Russia and the EU is fairly obvious because Russia provides around a quarter of the gas Europe consumes and the EU wants to lessen Russian influence/involvement in its energy requirements. Syria obviously wants to build it to help the Syrian economy recover. Russia is also forging new energy ties with Iran. As has been stated, it is a highly complex situation and the “Trump” kicked Syrian arseology, makes a total mockery of it.

I like this post and don’t wish to attack or detract from it.

“Got” and “planning to get” are two different things.

Going through your list. Putin has “got” a sea port and an airfield in Syria, which he may not be able to keep on to. The rest he is planning to get. Erm, big deal. How many ports and airfields, Oil and gas pipelines have UK got in the region? France, USA, and NATO?

What is this costing Russia? so far for one port and one airfield. Potentially WW3. Is it worth it? If Trump or Theresa were on the brink of causing WW3 due to an expansionist plot for a port, an airfield and the possibility of a few pipes, it’d be a very different story.

So, to recap. Putin in this new re-carving of the middle east, (admittedly perhaps not quite on a par with the Sykes-Picot / Balfour recarving) has “got” a port and an airfield, and if he’s a lucky boy, he and his mate Assad might get the tender on a few pipes, (whose gonna give those two gentlemen the job?) and, soon, Russia and Iran will be controlling the middle east. Trump and Theresa are useless warmongering pieces of shit and we’re all going to die.

Now I understand the politics of the middle east so much better

Thanks x

• This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by  Morgan..

sceptical guy wrote:

I think you’re a charlatan, Mr Bollox, who sends out a series of McGuffins to deflect arguemnt. You get your history wrong (talking about the Balfour Doctrine!) and then, when confronted with it, revert to semantics.

Nods in agreement.