Baroness Warsi – the Minister for Faith and Communities

I’ve only just read the article – I didn’t want to comment before I had the chance to – and from what I can see, Baroness Warsi hasn’t said it’s time for the minorities to join in Maypoles, harvest festivals, Christmas carols. What she has said is that she doesn’t see a contradiction between being a muslim and celebrating Christmas and she doesn’t see why ethnic minorities shouldn’t also, since white people celebrate Diwali and Eid. I think she makes a good point, in a multi-cultural environment, why shouldn’t we be inclusive? It’s not about forcing people to celebrate, it’s about saying it’s ok to celebrate.

As for RE at schools, personally I don’t think it goes far enough. Too much emphasis is placed on Christianity which is fine in a faith school where you know what to expect, but in a mixed school I personally believe that children should be taught about all faiths with no preferential treatment shown to any. If people knew more about the different faiths – from Wicca to Christianity and Judaeism to Islam and Sikh to Hinduism and all the others too numerous to mention – not only would they have a greater understanding of the cultural differences resulting from faith, they’d be able to see the strong parallels that run through all faiths and that there really isn’t very much difference when you get down to the bare bones. They’d also be more able to sort out what is genuinely associated with a faith and what is hysterical scare-mongering or extremist fundamentalism.

As for scrapping classroom assistants for those that help children that cannot speak English, as long as there is sufficient support to help the children learn English in extra-curricular tuition, then why not? I wouldn’t exclude them from the classroom though, the best way to learn a language is by immersion and if the parents don’t speak English at home then the classroom is the only place that the child can be immersed in the language. Yes it’s a burden on the taxpayer but it’s no different to providing extra-curricular tuition to children falling behind in reading, maths, sciences and so on.

@rusty trawler wrote:

It wasn’t so long ago when parents near where I live were being called racist because they had problems with their children having to be educated in predominantly Asian schools. I don’t think that race was the issue but more one of culture. The parents wanted their children to learn the things they need to succeed in British culture, which is primarily driven by western influences. Every parent wants the best for their kids.

I would call that racist. The assumption is that because it is a predominantly Asian school, the children wouldn’t learn the things they need to succeed in British culture…if that isn’t a racist assumption, what is? :?

@jen_jen wrote:

I’ve only just read the article – I didn’t want to comment before I had the chance to – and from what I can see, Baroness Warsi hasn’t said it’s time for the minorities to join in Maypoles, harvest festivals, Christmas carols. What she has said is that she doesn’t see a contradiction between being a muslim and celebrating Christmas and she doesn’t see why ethnic minorities shouldn’t also, since white people celebrate Diwali and Eid. I think she makes a good point, in a multi-cultural environment, why shouldn’t we be inclusive? It’s not about forcing people to celebrate, it’s about saying it’s ok to celebrate.

As for RE at schools, personally I don’t think it goes far enough. Too much emphasis is placed on Christianity which is fine in a faith school where you know what to expect, but in a mixed school I personally believe that children should be taught about all faiths with no preferential treatment shown to any. If people knew more about the different faiths – from Wicca to Christianity and Judaeism to Islam and Sikh to Hinduism and all the others too numerous to mention – not only would they have a greater understanding of the cultural differences resulting from faith, they’d be able to see the strong parallels that run through all faiths and that there really isn’t very much difference when you get down to the bare bones. They’d also be more able to sort out what is genuinely associated with a faith and what is hysterical scare-mongering or extremist fundamentalism.

As for scrapping classroom assistants for those that help children that cannot speak English, as long as there is sufficient support to help the children learn English in extra-curricular tuition, then why not? I wouldn’t exclude them from the classroom though, the best way to learn a language is by immersion and if the parents don’t speak English at home then the classroom is the only place that the child can be immersed in the language. Yes it’s a burden on the taxpayer but it’s no different to providing extra-curricular tuition to children falling behind in reading, maths, sciences and so on.

@rusty trawler wrote:

It wasn’t so long ago when parents near where I live were being called racist because they had problems with their children having to be educated in predominantly Asian schools. I don’t think that race was the issue but more one of culture. The parents wanted their children to learn the things they need to succeed in British culture, which is primarily driven by western influences. Every parent wants the best for their kids.

I would call that racist. The assumption is that because it is a predominantly Asian school, the children wouldn’t learn the things they need to succeed in British culture…if that isn’t a racist assumption, what is? :?

I fear you have misunderstood what intended to say. you’re right it is an assumption and not particularly informed. But they wanted the best for their children and given their assumptions it’s understandable they had fears and concerns which may have arisen out of racism but doesn’t necessarily make them racist. As I said ‘the parents wanted their children to learn the things they need to succeed in British culture… ‘ rightly or wrongly their perception of a predominantly Asian school didn’t conflate too well with this.

I’m not saying a school where the majority of kids are Asian would actually create problems but we all know how much misinformation there is out there about other cultures and we all know people can be gullible.

I’m not keen on labeling people as racist when they don’t necessarily understand all the intracacies and when they are misinformed by people who should and do know better. And I’m aware that this may know sound a tad patronizing, which again isn’t my intent. But I’m an optimist about these things in someways I don’t believe that people are inherently racist and I’m sure that if many of the supporters of racist parties are aware of the all the facts they would be less inclined to vote the way they do.

I made my point very badly and in retrospect I would have had an issue with it. But if you read my other statements you will note that i’m for children from minorities having access to English lessons and i think – dare i use the word multiculturalism? – the mixed communities / schools are a good thing. Apologies for not being clear.

@mrs_teapot wrote:

The point I was making in the classroom example I gave is that when you have mixed ability children to the degree that seems common in inner city schools these days its almost impossible to meet the needs of all those children unless a teacher has back up…to consider taking that away is just desperate and Im not sure many teachers would cope for long.

Its Ok to say well kids with additional language needs should have after school classes…. the fact is they don’t. Even if classes were available you cant suddenly make them compulsory…. these are young children who have had quite enough after a full day at school. There are all sorts of logistical problems too… these things don’t happen overnight and the funds are not available either.

Its all well and good to say well it should happen like this or that…. the thing is right now we have to work with the system we have and give the best education possible to mixed ability kids in the system now.. for me the way forward is more classroom assistants and better training for them.

Religion…. inform kids on all religions… but don’t practise any.

hmmmm! i seem to find myself saying ‘you’re right’ to everyone. but you’re right, practicalities get in the way of ideals. And you’re right teaching assistants are important.

RE that is taught in primary schools does teach the children about hinduism, islam, judaism and christianity………..it’s whether or not the parents want their child to sit in, that is the issue……..christian or atheist families have no problem about their children learning about all the religions ……….it’s the muslims, hindus, jews and sikhs who withdraw their children from the lessons and pick and choose what their children will or will not join in with.

it’s actually a night mare tbh………………one year we had a girl who was withdrawn from all RE lessons yet her parents allowed her to enter the easter egg competition……….there needs to be quite clear guide lines………….when there are incidences like that it becomes apparant that there are not.

@mrs_teapot wrote:

I suppose it depends on the number of kids with language needs…. Im not a teacher jen but if almost half the class were unable to understand I think a teaching assistant with language skills would be very useful.

All the other things you suggested … well yes and I expect some of that already happens in schools. I have a feeling though unless you had motivated parents….. which often they are not you would have difficulty enforcing after school classes…. especially if parents had more than one child and were having to collect at varying finishing times.

I do agree though there are many ways of dealing with learning…. I just think withdrawing multi lingual teaching assistants isn’t helpful…. although I can see the argument for limiting their use to only larger groups rather than one to one.

i am a teaching assistant……i can speak quite fluently in french and german but i’m not allowed to teach it even though i can pronounce properly and know a hell of a lot more than the teachers i work with do :lol: