Baroness Warsi – the Minister for Faith and Communities

Very well put ML.

Surely if speaking the majority language is so important, then learning the language should be supported in the best way possible.

Of course if we slow down their integration in this way, then in an election or two, candidates will be able to waste hot air blaming social problems on people who ‘haven’t even bothered’ to learn the language.

Why can’t they learn at home like native born English speakers?

Some liberal will be suggesting English language lessons for all schoolchildren next. You’ll be able to get A’levels in it and everything! Ridiculous!

I think Boo makes a very good point re the culture as opposed to the faith…I agree totally with that
However with regards to RE…personally I didn’t mind it at school even though in the “olden days” we only touched on other faiths including mine….I think nowadays listening to what parents say about it, there seems to be an unbalanced shift in learning which is causing resentment…times have changed….maybe it’s time to reconsider what is taught for how long etc…having said that RE is religious education…maybe RE should be stopped altogether? I don’t know..
With the points Baroness Warsi I am undivided on this:
Immigrants who came over in the 50’s and 60’s (my parents included) either had very young children or their children were born here so the English language was not a problem … “I speak propa english innit”
I know the influx due to recent immigration changes is causing strains on systems across the board including education and I have heard stories of english speaking children suffering because they aren’t focused as much on during class times which is wrong…I would be in uproar if my child was in a class where this happened..maybe classes on Saturdays for a couple of hours would be a good idea for all non speaking kids to attend but who would pay for it? Ultimately the tax payer.

@panda12 wrote:

I’m with kenty on this. I wouldn’t be happy if a child of mine was held back because political correctness dictates that non English speaking pupils must be educated in the same class.

They should be taught to read, write and speak English before they join their peers in the classroom.

How else is any child going to learn?

I gave up teacher training for secondary school kids because I didn’t believe in the system of teaching all abilities in one class. Kids need to be streamed depending on their ability as I personally think it is more beneficial to all.

You make a very good point here Panda.

It wasn’t so long ago when parents near where I live were being called racist because they had problems with their children having to be educated in predominantly Asian schools. I don’t think that race was the issue but more one of culture. The parents wanted their children to learn the things they need to succeed in British culture, which is primarily driven by western influences. Every parent wants the best for their kids.

It’s a complex problem. Kids acquire language skills most efficiently from their peers and a classroom environment is ideally suited to this. But if other kids are held back…. I’m sceptical though, not sure very young kids are held back in their development, so I would want this to be proven to me. I think we put too much emphasis on academic attainment on the very young anyway. If you look at other countries like Finland – where kids don’t start school until they are 6/7 and learning is more informal than our system and yet they continually outscore us in educational attainment – then we might be doing something wrong.

@panda12 wrote:

I’m with kenty on this. I wouldn’t be happy if a child of mine was held back because political correctness dictates that non English speaking pupils must be educated in the same class.

They should be taught to read, write and speak English before they join their peers in the classroom.

How else is any child going to learn?

I gave up teacher training for secondary school kids because I didn’t believe in the system of teaching all abilities in one class. Kids need to be streamed depending on their ability as I personally think it is more beneficial to all.

I’m still not sure about this Political Correctness thingy, and I should be because I’m told by ‘reliable sources’ that I’m a signed up member of the Brigade. Why is it political correctness to teach all children in one class (the way the Victorians did and many public schools still do) but not political correctness to decide that foreigners should sing christmas carols etc at a time when many British people struggle with the first line of many of them and don’t actually go to church. (workk it out, there aren’t enough church seats in the country to accommodate the 70% of the population who are officially christian, even if they only went once a month)

Why is it divisive if cultural groups ask for their own schools, but ok to suggest that their kids should be educated outside the mainstream ‘until they learn english’. What happens if they don’t learn English? You’d end up with de facto cultural schools.

As for mixed ability classes, I can’t really knock it, because of my kids the one who did worst at school went to one that streamed pupils, the others were educated in mixed ability classes and are all doing really well educationally – (passes the hat round to get another flamin’ genius through university . . . . . ) Maybe you missed out on the chance to teach one of them Panda – they’re lovely people too.