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I’ve had a few, and cant be bothered going page 4. At that point it was Pete’s usual contribution of kill him or Gaz’s more liberal approch of where he was brought up.
I think Its somwhere in between. People are products of their upbringing, but this type of thing cannot be excused for anyone.@Bad Manners wrote:
I’ve had a few, and cant be bothered going page 4. At that point it was Pete’s usual contribution of kill him or Gaz’s more liberal approch of where he was brought up.
I think Its somwhere in between. People are products of their upbringing, but this type of thing cannot be excused for anyone.I agree
Some people are products of their upbringing, some people are just born evil. These people cannot be released ever but it soothes our hunmanity to pay £40,000 a year to keep these people alive. We wouldnt keep a dog alive that merely bit someone, we’d have it put down without compunction. These people aren’t even animals, they’re much much worse.
Just out of interest, has anyone happened upon any of these evil babies that are knocking about? I confess to not having noticed any.
It seems a shaky concept to hang things on, evil. For example, is a shark being evil if it eats a child on her holibobs in Florida? I don’t think it is. It’s just being a shark. It hasn’t considered whether eating children is morally reprehensible or not. It knows no better.
Now, surely, if it can be demonstrated that these children are imbecilic or come from a place and time that leaves them without the ability to distinguish right from wrong in these matters, shouldn’t we let off with all the frothing evil stuff and try and find something constructive to do, as Mr Gazlan suggests?
Incidentally, if you think we may need to return to a Victorian method for an undoubtedly superior and more orderly society, you may be correct. Perhaps not in the way you might be thinking, though:
13th December 1847 WILLIAM DENYER, feloniously carnally knowing and abusing Martha Emma Crouch, aged eight years.
MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.
GUILTY. aged 15.— Recommended to mercy. — Confined Two Years.ª
Now, obviously, the Victorians weren’t averse to some proper hard punishment when the mood took them, but it does show that these sorts of things have always gone on and that even one hundred and sixty years ago they had recognised that a more sophisticated approach was sometimes called for.
see there is a place in the system for castration !…………i also belive in bringing back the cane at school and re intorducing national service …..!
OK, so maybe to use the term “evil” is the wrong expression. But I do believe that some people are born without the ability to feel empathy or compassion, and are never able to develop those things. Some of those can be described as psychopathic personalities. Pikey you are obvioulsy a proponent of nurture, rather than nature. I think it is usually a mixture of the two things…a nature that is off kilter and a nurture that makes things worse and if you add societies inability to help either those children who offend or those that are victims, you get the kind of things we have been discussing.
Maybe if the two Edlington boys had been born into strong, kind and caring families, they would have avoided becoming who they are now. The same could be true of the two who killed Jamie Bulger. But, you cannot blame the parents and home lives of all children who grow up to be paedophiles, rapists and murderers. Or can you?
A friend of mine had 4 sons, it was a strong, kind and caring family. 3 of his sons were good kids, getting into the usual scrapes but nothing serious, and are now good men. The other son was completely different, they couldn’t understand how his mind worked at all, didn’t know how to handle him, so continued to give him the same love and care they’d given the rest of their boys, set the boundaries in the same way, and so on. Nothing they did seemed to help though, as a toddler he was destructive, then he went from animal cruelty as a young boy to GBH as he got older, was always in fights.
Then he disappeared suddenly in his early 20s. The family were worried sick, fearing the worst, then one day they got a phone call. The call was from the son, just letting them know that he was ok but they wouldn’t see him again. Turned out he’d killed a man, and had fled the country. It broke his parents hearts to never be able to see him again despite everything.
My friend was constantly questioning himself up to the day he died, where had he gone wrong, what could he have done differently, why did his son turn out that way, how did he fail him. And each time he could only say one thing…”it didn’t matter what we did with that boy, we couldn’t get through to him – I think he was just born evil”.
@jen_jen wrote:
Some kids have horrific childhoods and go on to become monsters themselves, others have similar childhoods and go on to achieve great things.
Some kids have great childhoods with fantastic parents and go on to acheive great things, others have similar childhoods and go on to become monsters.
Some kids are just born evil and there’s nothing the parents, schools etc can do with them.
And the person who manages to find out what makes a child turn out a monster or an achiever whatever their background will go down in history.
Which is why there is no clear cut answer and to take Gaz’s pic of the dog chasing it’s own tail, that’s what this thread and society will continue to do.
:( that is so sad
there must be many many stories of people who survived terrible backgrounds to become successful adults. I did put up a couple of examples, but to be honest, we must all know of examples of families where one child ends up on the wrong side of the law, and families where terrible things happen but they still manage to come through it unscathed.
Its all to do with personality and character … and we are born with one and develop the other.
As for the dog chasing its tail.. have you never seen a dog catch its tail?
They always look so pleasantly surprised.
Least we have a couple people who would sign Peter Sutcliffes release papers because given the correct psycho babble he can be a constructive member of society. I expect Harold Shipman had a horrific childhood yet managed to become a GP despite the depravation and beatings ? My arse. These people cannot and never should be released
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