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8 August, 2019 at 11:56 pm #1122004
I do not believe it!
Omg for once Chuka Umunna, makes a very valid point. Just now on the news, Chuk has pointed out the utter lying hypocrisy of Fatboy Boris, AND YES all Brexiteers! In 2016 Boris demanded we leave the EU to “take back control of OUR Parliament!”
We now see this same guy announcing that when Parliament votes to boot him out of office in September, (WHEN BORIS LOSES THAT VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE!), Boris will in fact defy Parliament and refuse to leave!
LMAO lol. Brexit looks more and more ridiculous by the day lol.
Can someone please remind me what that daft EU referendum vote was actually all about. As it has almost been FOUR years now lol, and I for one have forgotten. Hahahaah 😂
9 August, 2019 at 12:00 am #1122006That has been teh talk of the town for several days now,.
That was the question which you evaded – can fat Boris do it?
Now you’ve realised.
Ah well, better late than never.
We may be heading into a major constitutional crisis in three or four weeks time. – IF Fat Boris loses his Vote of No Confidence.
9 August, 2019 at 12:03 am #1122008This is informative from Mark Elliott, Professor of Public law at Cambridge Uni.
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Can Parliament prevent a no-deal Brexit?
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Boris Johnson, the UK’s new Prime Minister, says that the UK will leave the EU on 31 October “do or die”. With negotiations between the UK and the EU apparently at an impasse, the likelihood of a no-deal Brexit now appears to be somewhat greater than the “million-to-one against” chance to which Johnson referred in late June. Since there is a clear majority in Parliament against a no-deal Brexit, the question arises whether it can prevent such an outcome. The further question arises — given recent pronouncements by Johnson’s senior adviser, Dominic Cummings — whether the Government could obstruct Parliament if it were to seek to stop the UK from exiting the EU without a withdrawal agreement. Against this background, there are doubtless many scenarios that may need to be contemplated over the coming weeks. In this post, I consider three possible sets of circumstances and examine the legal implications of each.
Scenario 1: No confidence
It is very likely that the Opposition will move a motion of no confidence in the Government when Parliament returns in early September. If the House of Commons were to pass a motion to the effect that it has no confidence in Her Majesty’s Government, two critical constitutional provisions would thereby be engaged. The first is a cardinal constitutional convention upon which the whole system of UK Government hangs. The second is the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 (FTPA). The relationship between these two constitutional provisions has, in recent days, been the source of considerable confusion.
The convention in question is that the UK Government’s authority to govern stands and falls by its capacity to command the confidence of the House of Commons. The position is set out clearly in paragraph 2.7 of the Cabinet Manual. When the Government loses a vote of confidence, convention requires that the Prime Minister should resign at an appropriate time. That does not necessarily mean that the Prime Minister should resign immediately. As the Cabinet Manual notes, circumstances may supply occasion for the Prime Minister to exercise judgement, for example by tendering his resignation only once he is in a position to advise the Queen as to whom she should appoint as his successor. There is thus no invariable constitutional requirement that Johnson should resign as soon as his Government loses a vote of confidence. However, the notion that a Prime Minister can ignore a vote of no confidence and carry on regardless is wholly without constitutional foundation. Losing a vote of confidence is a constitutional game-changer for any Government.
At this point, it is necessary to bring the FTPA into play. The effect of section 2(3) of that Act is that a motion of no confidence (in the appropriate form) triggers a 14-day period during which any of a number of things might happen. First, nothing might happen, in which case Parliament’s expression of no confidence stands and a general election must take place. Second, the incumbent Government might persuade sufficient MPs to change their mind and support it; if, in such circumstances, the Government wins a second (or further) confidence vote within the 14-day period, the Government remains in office and no early election occurs. Third, an alternative Government may be formed — a possibility that is considered in the next section of this post.
For the time being, however, a crucial question arises. What if the Government loses a vote of confidence and fails to recover the Commons’ confidence within 14 days of the first vote? The Act is clear that in such circumstances an early general election must be called. But section 2(7) provides that the timing of such an election is to be determined by the Queen “on the recommendation of the Prime Minister”. Dominic Cummings has reportedly said that the Government would simply advise the Queen that any election should take place after 31 October, thus ensuring that an early election would not prevent a no-deal Brexit. If the Government were to adopt this view, could anything be done in response? Two possibilities are worth considering.
First, Parliament could, in theory, legislate, whether by amending the FTPA as necessary or by simply enacting a one section statute instructing the Prime Minister to advise the Queen that an election be held by a given date (prior to 31 October). But while this would be legally possible, it would be extremely difficult in political terms. It would not, however, be politically impossible: Parliament has already shown itself capable of seizing control of parliamentary business in order to enact the Cooper-Letwin Bill, which sought to avert a no-deal Brexit in March 2019 by legally requiring the Prime Minister to seek an extension.
Second, it is entirely conceivable that the Prime Minister’s advice to the Queen would be challenged by way of judicial review. However, it is far from clear that any such challenge would succeed. It is certainly the case that in advising the Queen about the timing of an early election the Prime Minister is discharging a statutory duty that is impliedly imposed on him by section 2(7) of the FTPA. Within that duty is discretion that enables the Prime Minister to exercise judgement when advising the Queen, but all legal duties are legally limited, meaning that they are open to judicial review if the boundaries of the power are exceeded. However, having said all of this, the question of when an election should be held is par excellence a question of policy, thus rendering it unlikely that a court would regard the question as a justiciable one. The upshot is that a vote of no confidence could well end up triggering a general election that takes place after 31 October, meaning that a vote of no confidence on its own provides no guarantee against a no-deal Brexit.
Scenario 2: Alternative Government emerges
But what if the Johnson Government were to lose a vote of confidence and if, within the 14-day window established by the FTPA, another viable Government were to emerge? What if, for instance, MPs from a variety of parties (including some Conservative MPs) were to be in agreement that there should be a Government of national unity — a cross-party Government — led by a given senior MP? Would Johnson have to make way for such a new Government, or (as has been suggested) could he cling on until the end of the 14-day period and then call a general election? The answer to that question, in my view, is that it would be neither constitutional nor lawful for Johnson to cling on in such circumstances. I will deal each of those points in turn.
First, we have already seen that, as a matter of convention, the Government’s authority to govern hinges upon its capacity to command the confidence of the House of Commons. In turn, a Prime Minister can legitimately occupy that office only by virtue of leading a Government that commands the Commons’ confidence. We have also seen that there is, as a result, a constitutional duty upon the Prime Minister to resign should his Government lose the Commons’ confidence, albeit that that duty may not be triggered immediately. It is, however, indisputable that the duty crystallises once the Prime Minister is in a position to advise the Queen that someone else is in a position to form a Government that has the confidence of the House of Commons. It follows that if, within the 14-day period, it had become clear that a cross-party Government led by a given MP could command the confidence of the House, it would be incumbent upon Johnson to tender his resignation to the Queen and to advise her to appoint the relevant MP as the new Prime Minister.
If Johnson were to refuse to do this, there is no constitutional reason why the Queen should not dismiss Johnson and invite the relevant person to form a Government. Indeed, it is possible to go further by arguing that it would be the Queen’s constitutional duty to do so. Although the Queen normally acts only on the advice of her Ministers, the convention that she does so applies only in the absence of a more specific convention that requires the Queen to act otherwise. It is for this reason that the Queen would have to ignore ministerial advice not to grant royal assent to a Bill passed by both Houses, since a more specific convention — that the Queen grants assent to such Bills — would take precedence. Similarly, the convention that the Queen acts on an outgoing Prime Minister’s advice as to the appointment of a new Prime Minister cannot be sacrosanct. If, for instance, a Prime Minister who lost an election advised the Queen to reappoint him, she would have no option but to disregard such advice. Equally, if a Prime Minister who had lost a vote of confidence refused to resign and/or refused to advise the Queen to appoint a person who clearly could command the confidence of the House, the Queen would have no option but to dismiss the incumbent Prime Minister and ask the appropriately placed person to form a new administration. In doing so, the Queen would not be playing politics: she would be acting as the ultimate guarantor of fundamental constitutional principle in a manner fully consistent with the nature of constitutional monarchy in the UK.
Second, if the Prime Minister “squatted” in Downing Street following a vote of no confidence and following the emergence of an alternative viable government, with a view to running down the 14-day clock and triggering an election, the possibility of a legal challenge would arise (a point to which Tom Hickman has drawn attention). The argument would be a straightforward one: namely, that by acting in such a way, the Prime Minister would be frustrating one of the purposes of the FTPA and thus acting unlawfully. The Explanatory Notes to the FTPA state that the purpose of section 2(3), which establishes the 14-day window, “is to provide an opportunity for an alternative Government to be formed without an election”. Of course, Explanatory Notes are not legally binding, but in this instance they merely serve to point out that which is in any event clearly implicit in the statute itself. It is self-evident that the relevant provision in the legislation would be rendered a dead-letter if Prime Ministers were able to circumvent it by refusing the budge. As a result, it is clearly arguable that the FTPA imposes upon the Prime Minister a legal obligation to resign so as to make way for a new administration if, within the 14-day period, such an administration emerges. It also important to note that whereas a legal challenge to Prime Ministerial advice regarding the timing of an election would face an steep uphill struggle in the face of arguments about justiciability, the same is not true here: a refusal to resign in relevant circumstances would amount to a straightforward breach of a clear (implied) provision in the legislation, and would not engage any non-justiciable questions.
Scenario 3: Legislation
We have seen so far that by passing a motion of no confidence in the Government, Parliament may — subject, of course, to political considerations — be able to prevent a no-deal Brexit by producing a change of Government, either directly or following an early general election. The other main option open to Parliament is enacting legislation. As noted above, the political difficulties that would be involved in legislating in the face of Government opposition should not be underestimated, albeit that the Cooper-Letwin Bill shows that it can be done.
It is important to be clear about what the content of any legislation would need to be if it were to avert (either temporarily or permanently) the UK’s exit from the EU without a withdrawal agreement. There are certain steps that simply would not work, including some that were recently suggested by Vernon Bogdanor in the Guardian. One of Bogdanor’s suggestions was that “the Commons could legislate for a referendum before Brexit”. But this would not prevent the UK from leaving the EU by operation of EU law on 31 October unless, in addition, the UK Government requested and the EU agreed to an extension of the Article 50 period in order to create the time needed for a referendum to occur. Bogdanor also suggests that Parliament “could legislate to repeal the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act and reinstate the European Communities Act, in which case the UK would remain in the EU”. But that is incorrect. The enactment of the Notification of Withdrawal Act was necessary in order to empower the Government to trigger Article 50, but repealing that legislation would not revoke Article 50: it would remain the case that the UK had lawfully initiated the withdrawal process, and under EU law the repeal of the domestic legislation under which the UK had begun the process would make not a blind bit of difference. The same goes for Bogdanor’s point concerning the European Communities Act 1972. Repealing the Notification of Withdrawal Act would not, in any event, “reinstate” the 1972 Act because the former did not repeal the latter. But even putting that point to one side, whether the 1972 Act is or is not in force has no bearing whatever on whether the UK leaves the EU on 31 October. Exit, deal or no deal, is the default position in EU law, and “reinstating” (or not repealing) the 1972 Act makes no difference at all to that.
What, then, would work? There are only really three possibilities. First, Parliament could legislate to revoke Article 50. Of course, politically many MPs would balk at such a prospect, but such legislation would be the best means by which Parliament could absolutely guarantee against a no-deal Brexit. Such legislation could be rendered politically less unpalatable from a Leave perspective by, for instance, recording within the preamble an intention that the legislation is intended to be a precursor to a confirmatory referendum. (I recognise that the CJEU’s Wightman judgment requires revocation to be unconditional, but it not clear to me that an aspirational statement regarding a possible future referendum in the preamble to a statute would breach that requirement of unconditionality.) Legislation along these lines, if enacted, would provide a cast-iron guarantee against a no-deal Brexit because it would, presumably, impose an unqualified and immediate duty upon the Prime Minister to revoke the UK’s notification under Article 50.
Second, Parliament could legislate along the lines of the Cooper-Letwin Bill by requiring the Prime Minister to seek an extension of the Article 50 period. However, this would not provide any guarantees, since it would be for the European Council to decide whether to accede to such a request. Legislation that went no further than requiring the Government to seek an extension would thus reduce the likelihood of, but would not rule out, a no-deal Brexit. That leads on to a third possibility: namely, a hybrid of the first two. Such legislation might require, in the first instance, the Prime Minister to seek an extension. However, it might go on to provide that if no extension had been granted by a given date (e.g. 30 October), the Prime Minister would be legally obliged immediately to revoke the UK’s notification under Article 50. This sort of approach, with extension as the preferred option and revocation as a last-resort failsafe, would presumably be politically less unpalatable to some MPs than legislation that required revocation without more.
Conclusion
For reasons that I have explained elsewhere, the Supreme Court’s Miller judgment handed Parliament a golden opportunity to take control of the Brexit process. That opportunity was immediately squandered by parliamentarians who — for fear of being castigated as “enemies of the people” — fell over themselves to write the Government a blank cheque when they enacted the Notification of Withdrawal Act. That Act handed the Government complete discretion over when Article 50 should be triggered and provided Parliament with absolutely no instruments of control over the ensuing process. Ever since, Parliament has been playing catch-up. As the autumn unfolds, and as the cliff-edge beckons, we will see whether the majority of parliamentarians who are opposed to a no-deal Brexit can recover the situation. As I have sought to show in this post, Parliament does have options open to it. But those options are limited in legal terms — and decidedly so in political terms.
9 August, 2019 at 12:06 am #1122010and all the fun is on the 14-day window during which an alternative government may emerge.
Apparently, and according to McDonnell, labour will onlly support a government headed by Corbyn.
And Jo Swinson has ruled out supporting Corbyn as PM.
So interesting games ahead?
Only if Fat Boris really does lose that Vote.
9 August, 2019 at 12:10 am #1122012and all the fun is on the 14-day window during which an alternative government may emerge.
Apparently, and according to McDonnell, labour will onlly support a government headed by Corbyn.
And Jo Swinson has ruled out supporting Corbyn as PM.
So interesting games ahead?
Only if Fat Boris really does lose that Vote.
Calling people ” fat ” is illegal and you could end up serving time for this in San Quentin
9 August, 2019 at 12:11 am #1122014This was your initial reaction to my point about Fat Boris losing a Vote of No Confidence.
Simplistic nonsense.
If and when Boris is defeated, it’s being said that he will call an election. But the elction will be held after 31st October. In that way, the UK will have left the EU without a deal even with Parliament opposed and business screaming. After 31st October, we can’t rejoin just like that.
If you’re able to follow the Mark Elliott article, you can see it’s not so simplistic after all. And could be very important!
9 August, 2019 at 12:16 am #1122016A report by the All Party Parliamentary Group on Body Image and the Central YMCA dancing club recommended MPs should investigate putting “appearance-based discrimination” on the same legal basis as race and sexual discrimination.
Under the Equalities Act 2010, it is illegal to harass, victimise or discriminate against anyone on the basis of a number of ‘protected’ characteristics, such as their race, gender, sexual orientation, age, or disability indeed if they’re fat.
The parliamentary group headed by Johnny ” mad dog Adair “, supported by the charity Central YMCA club, has today published a report, Reflections on Body Image, recommending “a review into the scale of the problem of appearance-based discrimination and how this would be best tackled by making examples of morons like Geoffrey calling people fat.
It goes on: “This may include exploring whether an amendment to the Equalities Act would be the most appropriate way of tackling such discrimination.”
Under the current act, people can and are prosecuted for verbal abuse if it is deemed serious enough, so if Geoffrey says i’m fat I will burst his bulbous nose.
Sentencing guidelines for calling people ” fat ” will carry a sentence of 10 years to life, don’t worry Geoffrey I will send you your favourite brut soap without the string
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9 August, 2019 at 12:31 am #1122019You are like a cracked record Geoff! I merely returned to this Fatboy sit in, because Chuk put it so succinctly on the news @ appropriating the Brexiteers OWN strapline @ ” Taking Back Control”. loll
And yes we ARE heading for a massive constitutional crisis Geoff. And you did not listen to my answer to your question, so I will repeat it again. “Parliament has many ways to stop a no deal Brexit”. Chuk just said this again, on the news.
The Queen IS going to be dragged into it! And YES this is massive lol. The Queen has got power! The agreement is she NEVER uses it! BUT, and this is crucial Corb is a republican.
NEVER underestimate the Corb lol. Corb does not give a sh1t if the monarchy collapses. In fact its one of his goals, loll. So if anybody is not going to play the nice game, (not getting the Queen involved). It will be Corb.
LMAO what can of worms have Fatboy and Cummings really opened! Told you Parliament has ways of stopping a no deal Brexit.
Mcdonnell announced yesterday that ” When Boris defies PARLIAMENT’S vote of no confidence, I will put Jeremy in a taxi and send him to the Palace to TELL the Queen we are forming a new government!” note the verb to ” tell”, and not to “ask”.
That is the crucial point. Normally even an elected government in the democratic UK STILL, has to send its newly elected PM to ASK the Queen’s permisson to form a government. Now this will really irk Republican Corb. Hence he will instruct her Maj of his intentions.
This will put the Queen in an exceedingly invidious position! lmao does Queen say NO, (in effect NO you cannot enact the WILL of Parliament!), OMG . Like that constitutional expert said today on tv ” this will be as big a constitutional crisis as the civil war”.
The queen cannot EVER defy Parliament and its will, or be seen to be blocking it. If she does, she breaks the DEAL, if she does this the UK officially reverts back to being a Monarchy! Checkmate for Corb lmao! This will play into his hands @ Republican! Is the Queen really going to support Fatboy, put in power by just 90 thousand Tories (some just 15 yrs old), against Parliament?
I get the feeling that old Corb is a tad better at Chess than Fatboy Boris and Cummings ! ahahaahahaha
9 August, 2019 at 1:07 am #1122027Bring it on, the Revolution is coming!
This is what happens when you put simple planks like Boris and Trump into positions of great power. With great power comes great responsibility. These two clowns think in very linear patterns. Everything is so simple for the likes of Boris. Create a slogan and rule the world.
But in the real world it is never that simple Boris. If one piece of history should be taught over and over again in history lessons, and DEFO on politics courses, it is the tale of Franz Ferdinand.
Yes he and his wife were travelling jauntily along in their fine chitty chity bang bang one day, when alas there was a traffic jam up ahead, 2 of 7 assasins attempted to bomb Franz’s pretty car, but failed. The return journey was meant to take a safer route back, but the driver was not informed, and one assasin had another pop. Poor Sophie died, and later Franz.
From small foolish acts, great historical events are born….. Boris loolol
Archduke Ferdinand assassinated. In 1914, Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife Sophie are shot to death by a Bosnian Serb nationalist during an official visit to the Bosnian capital of Sarajevo. The killings sparked a chain of events that led to the outbreak of World War I by early August.
Fast forward 10 yrs from 2019……The Little England, Small Scotland, Tiny Wales, and Diddy Northern Ireland, formerly the “UK”, become Republics.
AKA Boris’s Legacy
9 August, 2019 at 1:32 am #1122033Ya know ! Why does that fkin idiot Geoffrey keep typing this same shite? >>>
If and when Boris is defeated, it’s being said that he will call an election. But the elction will be held after 31st October. In that way, the UK will have left the EU without a deal even with Parliament opposed and business screaming. After 31st October, we can’t rejoin just like that.
Wake up Geoff! This plan of Boris’s is based on that daft 5 yr fixed parliament. That was merely brought in as a sticking plaster to cement that shonky coalition between Cameron and Clegg, in the wake of the hung parliament in 2010. The Pound was sinking by the day. A solution had to be found. Hence to stabilise the markets, it was decided that any coalition had to be given a guaranteed term, 5 yrs was chosen.
Now when May called that disastrous early election in 2017 she promised in her manifesto to abolish the 5 year fixed term act. Another famous lie of hers.
Anyway, many MPs are challenging Cummings reading of this 5 yr fixed term act. Stating he is deliberatley misinterpreting it. I daresay he is. When it comes to the will of Parliament versus this shonky piece of legislature believe me Parliament will “Find a way to stop a no deal brexit”. Mcdonnell has been called a “genius” even by Con MPs. Corbyn informing the Queen that he is going to form a new government, immediately WHEN Boris loses that vote of no confidence, pulls the rug from under Boris and Cummings @ there will be no stalling opportunity, for an election to be held after Halloween. Mcdonnell is playing Bluffer Boris at his own game. Will the Cons LET Boris have his sit in, and risk Corb carrying out his threat?
Corb will take over gov in some form BEFORE Halloween Geoff!
@ “But the elction will be held after 31st October.”
So your constant bleating of But the elction will be held after 31st October. is a moot point.
BTW for someone who claims not to be a Brexiteer you do seem to be a big fan of Boris and his tactics @ YOU NEVER SAY OH CORB IS DOING THIS ETC AND THAT ETC ..
Just saying like
- This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by BadderThanBadF.
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